Post: #26

(05-20-2013 11:42 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 11:36 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 11:35 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  I hope this practice is weeded out, at least for non-Muslim and non-Jewish boys.

Why? It's cleaner and healthier. I'll have my kid circumcised and I'm not even religious.

I don't know man. If nature is giving you something, I don't see the point of it being removed after birth. If I am not wrong, the American Medical Association also said recently that ultimately circumcision is not needed and as long as you clean your dick properly it's not going to be dirty. At the end of the day it is mutilation. I figured members of this forum and certainly "red pill" guys would be against it.

Here's the thread I was referring to:

/thread-19974.html

Maybe, but it's just easier to maintain cleanliness if you're clipped. I also have read it reduces the risk of contracting STD's, though not sure how true that is. I think it's more preferable among American girls. I see it as doing him a favor.

Post: #27

delete

Post: #28

I don't see how being uncircumsized is any less clean. It's not like you shower once a month. Also, you don't need lotion to fap.

Post: #29

(05-20-2013 11:46 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 11:42 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 11:36 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 11:35 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  I hope this practice is weeded out, at least for non-Muslim and non-Jewish boys.

Why? It's cleaner and healthier. I'll have my kid circumcised and I'm not even religious.

I don't know man. If nature is giving you something, I don't see the point of it being removed after birth. If I am not wrong, the American Medical Association also said recently that ultimately circumcision is not needed and as long as you clean your dick properly it's not going to be dirty. At the end of the day it is mutilation. I figured members of this forum and certainly "red pill" guys would be against it.

Here's the thread I was referring to:

/thread-19974.html

Maybe, but it's just easier to maintain cleanliness if you're clipped. I also have read it reduces the risk of contracting STD's, though not sure how true that is. I think it's more preferable among American girls. I see it as doing him a favor.

I see. I am too lazy to find the AMA report which said the STD thing was a little overblown. In terms of American (Canadian) women, it really hasn't been a problem. Just a few girls were surprised but most can't even tell and don't care (in regards to your point about your potential son). But an interesting point of view, nonetheless.

Post: #30

Yeah. To be honest I don't see it as a huge deal either way. I just personally would decide to clip my son. But I could understand why you wouldn't want to.

Post: #31

there was a thread on this a while back, some people got all heated up...

I'm uncut. It's not cleaner or healthier to be cut, that's a myth. There's thousands of nerves in the tip. I'm thankful for my parents decision. When my dad was having the "birds and bees" talk with me, he just said I could wait until I was an adult and if I felt like having the procedure done, I could.

For anyone deciding to have their kids circumcised, I can tell you this: If you didnt get them cut and gave them the choice of getting circumsized when they hit puberty, I'm willing to bet 99.99% of them wouldnt do it. Consider that.

Post: #32

(05-21-2013 12:00 AM)thedude3737 Wrote:  If you didnt get them cut and gave them the choice of getting circumsized when they hit puberty, I'm willing to bet 99.99% of them wouldnt do it. Consider that.

Of course they wouldn't, it would hurt like a son of a bitch and more than likely be pretty traumatizing. Hell, I wouldn't have either. But when they're kids they won't remember it so it won't be traumatic for them.

Post: #33

(05-21-2013 12:00 AM)thedude3737 Wrote:  there was a thread on this a while back, some people got all heated up...

Yeah, this is the thread that I already posted in this thread:

/thread-19974.html

Post: #34

(05-20-2013 11:09 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Juat wondering what the reason for this is? Apparently most Americans are circumcised. Seems a bit of a strange thing to do considering the foreskin is there for a reason (thanks to evolution).

It always seems a bit backward to have a totally pointless operation carried out on babies (particularly since it can occasionally be deadly).

Anyway - just curious as to how this came about? Here in the UK it is only carried out for religious reasons. So - I am interested in how it became a cultural norm in America?

It is becoming less common in the US but is still the general rule for white protestants. I think it became a common practice due to its dubious medical benefits and then carried on for no good reason. A barbaric custom. Unless you can show real medical benefits, you are just mutilating your kid to suit your own aesthetic. It would be like piercing an infants ears or giving it a tattoo only even more extreme.

Post: #35

(05-21-2013 12:06 AM)Lemmo Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 11:09 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Juat wondering what the reason for this is? Apparently most Americans are circumcised. Seems a bit of a strange thing to do considering the foreskin is there for a reason (thanks to evolution).

It always seems a bit backward to have a totally pointless operation carried out on babies (particularly since it can occasionally be deadly).

Anyway - just curious as to how this came about? Here in the UK it is only carried out for religious reasons. So - I am interested in how it became a cultural norm in America?

It is becoming less common in the US but is still the general rule for white protestants. I think it became a common practice due to its dubious medical benefits and then carried on for no good reason. A barbaric custom.

No confirmation on my jew doctor theory?

Don't know enough about circumcision and am too lazy to do research to figure it out.

Post: #36

(05-21-2013 12:09 AM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

(05-21-2013 12:06 AM)Lemmo Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 11:09 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Juat wondering what the reason for this is? Apparently most Americans are circumcised. Seems a bit of a strange thing to do considering the foreskin is there for a reason (thanks to evolution).

It always seems a bit backward to have a totally pointless operation carried out on babies (particularly since it can occasionally be deadly).

Anyway - just curious as to how this came about? Here in the UK it is only carried out for religious reasons. So - I am interested in how it became a cultural norm in America?

It is becoming less common in the US but is still the general rule for white protestants. I think it became a common practice due to its dubious medical benefits and then carried on for no good reason. A barbaric custom.

No confirmation on my jew doctor theory?

Don't know enough about circumcision and am too lazy to do research to figure it out.

Yeah, I am curious to know how the practice started in America and Canada especially when Europeans are uncut and both of these countries were settled by Europeans and their descendants.

Post: #37

I would imagine sex would feel better without the foreskin though, wouldn't it? I guess it's hard to say. Even if someone went from being uncircumcised to clipped, who's to say he didn't lose sensitivity doing it at an older age? Someone asked lucky in the other thread but he never responded. He did say though he was happy he went through with the procedure and recommended it.

Post: #38

(05-21-2013 12:09 AM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

(05-21-2013 12:06 AM)Lemmo Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 11:09 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Juat wondering what the reason for this is? Apparently most Americans are circumcised. Seems a bit of a strange thing to do considering the foreskin is there for a reason (thanks to evolution).

It always seems a bit backward to have a totally pointless operation carried out on babies (particularly since it can occasionally be deadly).

Anyway - just curious as to how this came about? Here in the UK it is only carried out for religious reasons. So - I am interested in how it became a cultural norm in America?

It is becoming less common in the US but is still the general rule for white protestants. I think it became a common practice due to its dubious medical benefits and then carried on for no good reason. A barbaric custom.

No confirmation on my jew doctor theory?

Don't know enough about circumcision and am too lazy to do research to figure it out.

Here you go http://www.historyofcircumcision.net/ind...view&id=42 Alan Guttmacher seems to have been a big proponent. Sounds like a wacko if you read his Wiki bio. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Frank_Guttmacher

Post: #39

(05-21-2013 12:16 AM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(05-21-2013 12:09 AM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

(05-21-2013 12:06 AM)Lemmo Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 11:09 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Juat wondering what the reason for this is? Apparently most Americans are circumcised. Seems a bit of a strange thing to do considering the foreskin is there for a reason (thanks to evolution).

It always seems a bit backward to have a totally pointless operation carried out on babies (particularly since it can occasionally be deadly).

Anyway - just curious as to how this came about? Here in the UK it is only carried out for religious reasons. So - I am interested in how it became a cultural norm in America?

It is becoming less common in the US but is still the general rule for white protestants. I think it became a common practice due to its dubious medical benefits and then carried on for no good reason. A barbaric custom.

No confirmation on my jew doctor theory?

Don't know enough about circumcision and am too lazy to do research to figure it out.

Yeah, I am curious to know how the practice started in America and Canada especially when Europeans are uncut and both of these countries were settled by Europeans and their descendants.

It seems to have been a blip in US history. Only really started up in the early 20th century, peaked in the 60s and 70s and is now quickly becoming less common. http://www.historyofcircumcision.net/ind...&Itemid=52

Post: #40

(05-21-2013 12:21 AM)Lemmo Wrote:  

(05-21-2013 12:09 AM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

(05-21-2013 12:06 AM)Lemmo Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 11:09 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Juat wondering what the reason for this is? Apparently most Americans are circumcised. Seems a bit of a strange thing to do considering the foreskin is there for a reason (thanks to evolution).

It always seems a bit backward to have a totally pointless operation carried out on babies (particularly since it can occasionally be deadly).

Anyway - just curious as to how this came about? Here in the UK it is only carried out for religious reasons. So - I am interested in how it became a cultural norm in America?

It is becoming less common in the US but is still the general rule for white protestants. I think it became a common practice due to its dubious medical benefits and then carried on for no good reason. A barbaric custom.

No confirmation on my jew doctor theory?

Don't know enough about circumcision and am too lazy to do research to figure it out.

Here you go http://www.historyofcircumcision.net/ind...view&id=42

I guess it was Jewish doctors that popularized it.

Alan F. Guttmacher was Jewish:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Frank_Guttmacher

Post: #41

I believe the practice started during the WW1 era based on bad science claiming it prevented infection. Note that this is the same level of medical technology that invented the Graham cracker, which was designed to prevent children from masturbating due to the bland flavor.

Since unnecessary surgery makes doctors and hospitals a lot of money, doctors that know it's pointless still push parents into it, or at least take the neutral approach of not saying anything against it. Just add it to the list of other pointless surgical procedures designed to rip people off, lots of hysterectomies and back surgeries fall into this category. Hell, my dentist wanted to remove my wisdom teeth, and the best reason he could give was "well, it's pretty hard to brush that far back". Needless to say I opted out and am all the wiser for it.

Post: #42

You ant eaters are a strange bunch.

Post: #43

(05-21-2013 12:47 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  You ant eaters are a strange bunch.

It must be all of our extra nerve endings.

Post: #44

(05-21-2013 12:49 AM)ghostdog Wrote:  

(05-21-2013 12:47 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  You ant eaters are a strange bunch.

It must be all of our extra nerve endings.

Post: #45

(05-21-2013 12:27 AM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  I believe the practice started during the WW1 era based on bad science claiming it prevented infection. Note that this is the same level of medical technology that invented the Graham cracker, which was designed to prevent children from masturbating due to the bland flavor.

Since unnecessary surgery makes doctors and hospitals a lot of money, doctors that know it's pointless still push parents into it, or at least take the neutral approach of not saying anything against it. Just add it to the list of other pointless surgical procedures designed to rip people off, lots of hysterectomies and back surgeries fall into this category. Hell, my dentist wanted to remove my wisdom teeth, and the best reason he could give was "well, it's pretty hard to brush that far back". Needless to say I opted out and am all the wiser for it.

Never thought of removal of wisdom teeth as being a scam. I will have to look into that.

Would be interested to know if others think it is as well?

Post: #46

(05-20-2013 11:09 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Juat wondering what the reason for this is? Apparently most Americans are circumcised. Seems a bit of a strange thing to do considering the foreskin is there for a reason (thanks to evolution).

It always seems a bit backward to have a totally pointless operation carried out on babies (particularly since it can occasionally be deadly).

Anyway - just curious as to how this came about? Here in the UK it is only carried out for religious reasons. So - I am interested in how it became a cultural norm in America?

The explanation I received in medical school is that there just happened to be a mania for circumsion from about the 1950's.

It was thought to be healthier to be circumcised, and at the time there was a lot of press about the unhealthy side effects of masturbation, and it was thought that circumcision would reduce masturbatory behaviour later in life.

That the future masturbatory habits of newborn males were such a concern in the USA just goes to show what a messed up era that must have been.

This was an era in the USA where people would shut up and do what they were told and you never argued with your doctor.

Anyway, once it became a popular idea in medical circles, the USA basically went into a manic circumcision bubble where everyone joined in the groupthink without questioning the logic or the science behind circumcisions. The bubble popped somewhere in the late 1970's and circumcision rates have been steadily declining since.

Anyway, that's what they taught me in school, but I've learn the hard way not to believe everything I've been taught, so take it for what it is - an attempt to historically rationalise an irrational group behaviour.

Post: #47

redacted

Post: #48

Misinformation at first, fueled by sexual paranoia (see Dr. Kellog), then denial and rationalization about having made a mistake. It it was done for religious reasons like in the rest of the world, I could understand it.

Post: #49

(05-21-2013 01:06 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 11:09 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Juat wondering what the reason for this is? Apparently most Americans are circumcised. Seems a bit of a strange thing to do considering the foreskin is there for a reason (thanks to evolution).

It always seems a bit backward to have a totally pointless operation carried out on babies (particularly since it can occasionally be deadly).

Anyway - just curious as to how this came about? Here in the UK it is only carried out for religious reasons. So - I am interested in how it became a cultural norm in America?

The explanation I received in medical school is that there just happened to be a mania for circumsion from about the 1950's.

It was thought to be healthier to be circumcised, and at the time there was a lot of press about the unhealthy side effects of masturbation, and it was thought that circumcision would reduce masturbatory behaviour later in life.

That the future masturbatory habits of newborn males were such a concern in the USA just goes to show what a messed up era that must have been.

This was an era in the USA where people would shut up and do what they were told and you never argued with your doctor.

Anyway, once it became a popular idea in medical circles, the USA basically went into a manic circumcision bubble where everyone joined in the groupthink without questioning the logic or the science behind circumcisions. The bubble popped somewhere in the late 1970's and circumcision rates have been steadily declining since.

Anyway, that's what they taught me in school, but I've learn the hard way not to believe everything I've been taught, so take it for what it is - an attempt to historically rationalise an irrational group behaviour.

He's right. It was anti-masturbation hysteria, but from what I gather it started before the 1950s with the guy Kellogg -- the one behind the cereal company. He also believed in enemas regularly. There is a movie from the '90s about him called "The Road to Wellness" starring Matthew Broderick.

The reason this is still done is because circumcision is a big money maker for hospitals. Superstitious bullshit tends to stick around when someone can make a profit off it. There is no medical basis for circumcision and in fact a large number of them are botched. For further reading, consult the books of Dr. Dean Edell, a medical physician who not is against the practice but is Jewish -- and doesn't believe religious rituals should be medical procedure for everyone.

God, or nature, didn't make mistakes with the human body that humans need to "correct." And if people can justify circumcision for men, I don't see why you can't do the same for women -- and throw in foot-binding while they're at it.

Also, women should have no say in this debate, as it's not their bodies. My body my choice -- maybe they've heard that saying somewhere.

PS: The same debate is happening in regard to wisdom teeth. Unless they're impacted or you have too many teeth for your mouth, they don't need to come out. Mine grew in fine but a dentist convinced me they were "problematic" and removed two. I later found out his kid was in legal trouble and he was doing unnecessary procedures to raise legal funds.

Post: #50

People are getting real high-horse about circumcision. I think I was one of the last males to be circumcised (in 1989). Now its like considered murder, or strictly a Jewish thing. I think the doctor that delivered me was quite WASPy, I think it was just old school medical theory about it. Not to sound like a whiner (I'm not Jewish btw) but this anti-circumsision thing seems to me to be a crypto-criticism of Jews, like how much SWPLs don't like Israel, they wanna complain about jews (which a lot of them are) and have their cake, too.