Post: #1

I developed a rule where I don't waste time with women that don't put out or are not willing to come watch a movie with me by the third date. I am just sick of wasting time with girls that expect me to waste time chatting with them in cafes indefinitely without any prospect of a reward. I am willing to make exceptions for really hot girls, although not too long. It is soft stupid white knights that encourage this kind of behavior in women.

I am trying to find a way to hint to them what the three-date rule is so they know as I know the majority is dumb as a brick. Take for instance the girl I've been going out with recently. I took her to 4 cafe dates on 4 separate occasions. She is the one calling me 3-4 times a day trying to set up meets. I suggested to her that we could watch a movie at my place. She responded "why not see a movie at the theater?" I told her there is nothing good I'd like to see there and that my movies are better. She said she would not come today or tomorrow with me, hung up, and later texted me saying that she got the sense that I was interested in her purely for sex. Duh, what am I listening to your retarded blabbering about and paying for your meals for? She later texted me that if I expected something sexual I made a wrong bet and that she only has sex with a guy she loves. She now keeps calling and texting me trying to see me again. Needless to say, I'm dumping her.

She's also called me "perfect guy" to me and to a friend she introduced me to. It could be that the problem with some girls is they are trying to up the price for themselves if they feel my true value and that I need to play it down somehow, i.e. lower my DHVs so they don't feel they have to play marriage material with me.

Do you guys have any good ways to hint them they are about to be dumped if they don't get with the program? Or how to avoid them starting the "marriage material" game with me trying to make me wait forever before putting out?

Post: #2

(03-31-2013 09:25 PM)chamele0n Wrote:  I developed a rule where I don't waste time with women that don't put out or are not willing to come watch a movie with me by the third date. I am just sick of wasting time with girls that expect me to waste time chatting with them in cafes indefinitely without any prospect of a reward. I am willing to make exceptions for really hot girls, although not too long. It is soft stupid white knights that encourage this kind of behavior in women.

I am trying to find a way to hint to them what the three-date rule is so they know as I know the majority is dumb as a brick. Take for instance the girl I've been going out with recently. I took her to 4 cafe dates on 4 separate occasions. She is the one calling me 3-4 times a day trying to set up meets. I suggested to her that we could watch a movie at my place. She responded "why not see a movie at the theater?" I told her there is nothing good I'd like to see there and that my movies are better. She said she would not come today or tomorrow with me, hung up, and later texted me saying that she got the sense that I was interested in her purely for sex. Duh, what am I listening to your retarded blabbering about and paying for your meals for? She now keeps calling and texting me trying to see me again. Needless to say, I'm dumping her.

She's also called me "perfect guy" to me and to a friend she introduced me to. It could be that the problem with some girls is they are trying to up the price for themselves if they feel my true value and that I need to play it down somehow, i.e. lower my DHVs so they don't feel they have to play marriage material with me.

Do you guys have any good ways to hint them they are about to be dumped if they don't get with the program? Or how to avoid them starting the "marriage material" game with me trying to make me wait forever before putting out?

Hmmm where to start....

First off, you don't "drop the hint", you just do. If that's your rule, your boundary, then stick to it, she doesn't need to know about it. The "dread" thing doesn't work until you've already fucked her, so if you hint at it, it just looks like a desperate ploy on your part. Three, "marriage material/perfect guy" (esp. since you haven't banged) means they're not feeling you sexually, so move on. This past weekend I me this girl and her friends, a mixed guy-girl group. She pointed to one of the guys in the group and said "I'm gonna marry him someday". Meanwhile, she's putting her tongue down my throat in front of all of them, and then later we proceed to have the nastiest sex I've had ever. I'm talking the kind of shit that makes bio-chemical warfare look like a welcoming alternative. So in essence, I'm the guy she's banging and the "marriage" guy is the guy she has on back-burner, or at least that's how she views it.

The bigger issue for you I think is that you're not giving off a sexual vibe from the get-go. This has to be done. This way you learn quickly if they're into you or not. Not to mention women love a guy who knows what he wants. Like you said, why are you doing all these ancillary things (dinner, listening to B.S.) for? you know what you want, you need to go for it from the start. Now this takes practice and calibration, but in essence she needs to know from the start that you have sexual intentions. Note, not ROMANTIC (i.e. dating) intentions, sexual. You're style is more passive-aggressive, you need to be more active aggressive (without crossing certain lines of course). I don't know you personally so I may be wrong, but think about how you are with these girls at the beginning and you might see what I'm guessing is the issue. Good luck.

Post: #3

Logistics Failure. If you can't get a girl into your apartment (or into hers) by the 3rd date you're either doing it wrong or she's just not interested in you. It sounds like you're not escalating your dates properly. And if you really had a 3 date rule you'd have dropped this chick already, so it's not like you're even being congruent.

Post: #4

(03-31-2013 09:52 PM)Ensam Wrote:  Logistics Failure. If you can't get a girl into your apartment (or into hers) by the 3rd date you're either doing it wrong or she's just not interested in you. It sounds like you're not escalating your dates properly. And if you really had a 3 date rule you'd have dropped this chick already, so it's not like you're even being congruent.

I guess you are right technically. I did overshoot with the 4 dates.

Logistics-wise: you may have a point. I've made huge strides in my game in other game areas recently (figuring out where to find approachable pussy) so I've neglected logistics entirely lately. Sometimes I think game/routines/PUA theory will never get close to the usefulness of figuring out how to find approachable girls. I guess I have to get back to basics, I've been thinking I'm in heaven lately so I had no more need for game lol.

Post: #5

(03-31-2013 09:25 PM)chamele0n Wrote:  She is the one calling me 3-4 times a day trying to set up meets. I suggested to her that we could watch a movie at my place. ... She said she would not come today or tomorrow with me, hung up, and later texted me saying that she got the sense that I was interested in her purely for sex. Duh, what am I listening to your retarded blabbering about and paying for your meals for?

It is your job to screen and set expectations. WTF is she calling you? Are those cafes that damned special? Or is she really that bored? It sounds like you enabled a dinner-whore.

If she hung up on you then she deserves the cold shoulder. How much disrespect will you tolerate?

1) She has played you, letting you pay.
2) Then she has been indignant.
3) She insulted your interest in sex.

Basically you could not have done worse, wasting your time and money. If you had made her split checks then she might even have respected you and felt more attraction. Now she can tell that you are being a phony, trying to buy your way into her pants. You were correct to request a private date. But you should have sexualized things from the beginning. Tell her straight up that you are attracted to her sexually and want to spend private time. Don't deny your interest! I would have responded to her text (a day later) saying "Is healthy interest in sex a bad thing?"

You probably can't recover this, so don't invest much more. If she is calling frequently then she has some interest in you. You can try to punish her, make her feel bad, and seek your approval. She should apologize, come over to your place, and bring a peace offering of alcohol. If you she doesn't make significant physical progress then kick her out immediately.

Post: #6

(03-31-2013 09:52 PM)Ensam Wrote:  Logistics Failure. If you can't get a girl into your apartment (or into hers) by the 3rd date you're either doing it wrong or she's just not interested in you. It sounds like you're not escalating your dates properly. And if you really had a 3 date rule you'd have dropped this chick already, so it's not like you're even being congruent.

I would not say that a guy is doing "something wrong" if he does not get bang her by the 3rd date. The "wrong" is relative for each guy and depends on what THAT GUY perceives to be too much work. Some guys are not going to "phone bone" or dedicate a lot of time to bang a chick...even if he knows more time would do the job.

...but then, that means you are basically jumping through her hoops.

My rule was always 3-meetings/2-weeks (whichever comes first) and after that, she has to initiate meetings. I am not missing any football games, not changing my travel schedules just for some tail.

Post: #7

I agree with previous poster comments, you're probably not escalating enough or she would have dropped the boom that's she's frigid-- which she is my speculation.

BUT you're charming enough to get her calling you which is the good part!

I have the same problem, I have fun talking to them and don't want to bring on the crisis of escalating and realizing they're not DTF.

A non-frigid girl that really truly thinks you're "perfect" would already independently have it in her mind that she wants to fuck, and would make it easy not hard. What else would she do with the perfect guy?

I think we need to re-start using the word "frigid" for women, as there are a pretty significant proportion that aren't that into sex.

This study indicates that 40% don't really want sex and out of them, only 1/4 ( 10% of all women) wish they had more sex drive. Before you scoff at this, remember this isn't out of hot girls, it's out of all girls. Hot girls by my guess probably have a much higher sex drive on average because they're healthier as well as show more interest by grooming themselves better.

So that indicates that about 30% of women aren't into sex, and don't see it as a big thing. That might be the type that criticizes you for wanting her "only for sex". She wants you as much as she wants a prestigious couch. You'd be an ornament she can show to her friends, and she figures she could "tolerate" fucking you for the Beta companionship and status with her friends.

I think it's hard-wired for most and there's little hope of changing them. And it's critical to use our limited time to quickly eliminate them from our lives unless there's a compelling reason to associate with them ( money etc. )

Post: #8

(03-31-2013 11:07 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 09:52 PM)Ensam Wrote:  Logistics Failure. If you can't get a girl into your apartment (or into hers) by the 3rd date you're either doing it wrong or she's just not interested in you. It sounds like you're not escalating your dates properly. And if you really had a 3 date rule you'd have dropped this chick already, so it's not like you're even being congruent.

I would not say that a guy is doing "something wrong" if he does not get bang her by the 3rd date. The "wrong" is relative for each guy and depends on what THAT GUY perceives to be too much work. Some guys are not going to "phone bone" or dedicate a lot of time to bang a chick...even if he knows more time would do the job.

...but then, that means you are basically jumping through her hoops.

My rule was always 3-meetings/2-weeks (whichever comes first) and after that, she has to initiate meetings. I am not missing any football games, not changing my travel schedules just for some tail.

The reason I say he's doing something wrong is because he's expecting women to bang him by the 3rd date but he's not giving them the opportunity to do so. It's very unlikely that a chick is going to say at the end of a 3rd (or 4th!) coffee date that she wants to go back home and bone. Instead he has to create a situation where sex (or at the very least serious escalation) can just happen. She needs to be able to tell herself (and her friends), "Oh we just went back to his place to check out his amazing stamp collection and then one thing led to another..."

There's a lot of focus here on approaches but a large part of game is logistics. You need to create situations where sex can happen. If a woman feels safe with you she will come back to your place on the slightest pretext. See /thread-8681.html if you're struggling with how to get a girl back to your place. Recently my bangs have all been SNLs and first date bangs. It's mostly due to tightening up logistics and being more physically dominant once inside. In the past 3 months I've only had one second date (pre sex) and that's because I wasn't 100% sold on the girl and ultimately decided to pass. I still got her back to my place and could have probably gotten the notch if she'd been a little hotter/cooler.

Post: #9

(03-31-2013 11:29 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  I agree with previous poster comments, you're probably not escalating enough or she would have dropped the boom that's she's frigid-- which she is my speculation.

BUT you're charming enough to get her calling you which is the good part!

I have the same problem, I have fun talking to them and don't want to bring on the crisis of escalating and realizing they're not DTF.

A non-frigid girl that really truly thinks you're "perfect" would already independently have it in her mind that she wants to fuck, and would make it easy not hard. What else would she do with the perfect guy?

I think we need to re-start using the word "frigid" for women, as there are a pretty significant proportion that aren't that into sex.

This study indicates that 40% don't really want sex and out of them, only 1/4 ( 10% of all women) wish they had more sex drive. Before you scoff at this, remember this isn't out of hot girls, it's out of all girls. Hot girls by my guess probably have a much higher sex drive on average because they're healthier as well as show more interest by grooming themselves better.

So that indicates that about 30% of women aren't into sex, and don't see it as a big thing. That might be the type that criticizes you for wanting her "only for sex". She wants you as much as she wants a prestigious couch. You'd be an ornament she can show to her friends, and she figures she could "tolerate" fucking you for the Beta companionship and status with her friends.

I think it's hard-wired for most and there's little hope of changing them. And it's critical to use our limited time to quickly eliminate them from our lives unless there's a compelling reason to associate with them ( money etc. )

nice analysis. +1 rep from me

Post: #10

Are you expecting them to just "put out" by the third date, or are you actually doing something that might actually end up in them finding their way into your bed by the third date?

In other words, are you gaming them, or just taking them out?

Post: #11

Patience is a virtue. you will understand 'it's cheaper to retain the customer than finding a new one'

If you are little bit more patient, she will eventually sleep with you and you can hit her anytime you want. Why would you want to get rid of that and start all over?

this 'bang her asap' from pua forum is B.S in my humble opinion.

Post: #12

(04-01-2013 05:22 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  Patience is a virtue. you will understand 'it's cheaper to retain the customer than finding a new one'

If you are little bit more patient, she will eventually sleep with you and you can hit her anytime you want. Why would you want to get rid of that and start all over?

this 'bang her asap' from pua forum is B.S in my humble opinion.

No way this is a real suggestion. This dude needs to cut it off and stop worrying about this chick. If you have a three-date rule, just cut the cord and stop replying to the girl. If your intentions were clear from the get go, there should be no confusion on her part. If she can't put out by the third date, drop her and excommunicate her. She'll get it.

Post: #13

I have a one date rule.

Patience is not one of my virtues.

Post: #14

(04-01-2013 05:22 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  Patience is a virtue. 'it's cheaper to retain the customer than finding a new one'

If you are little bit more patient, she will eventually sleep with you

No, at some point you need to triage. Suppose he goes on ten or twenty dates with nothing. Should he waste further time?

The subtextual communication of the three date expectation will motivate her.

The time constraint will also motivate him. He has foolishly taken her to cafes four times without escalating. In the process, he has become bitter and frustrated that the universe owes him pussy. If he had a constraint then he would have done some escalation on the second date. At the same time he has created a nonsexual vibe. Now the woman views him as a gay best-friend with deep pockets, and it will be hard to recover. It will be like trying to toilet-train a teenager.

Post: #15

I've had a few of these types of girls. I let it fall off. Girls who want to bang will jump through ridiculous hoops, this does not seem like the case.

This girl doesnt even seem open to it.

I would just let it simmer for 2 weeks. Hit her up w/a "hey stranger, what rock have you been hiding under?" Come over tomorrow/this week/this weekend and well smoke a J and drink some wine."

Thats my only option.

Post: #16

The answer is in your post, you drop her on the third date.

The longer a girl makes you wait the less attractive you are to her.

No girl is going to keep her legs together for her dream guy.

Post: #17

(03-31-2013 09:25 PM)chamele0n Wrote:  Do you guys have any good ways to hint them they are about to be dumped if they don't get with the program? Or how to avoid them starting the "marriage material" game with me trying to make me wait forever before putting out?

I agree with what others said that you likely haven't made better opportunities for this to happen (or at least for SOME level of physical escalation to happen), but I also think that you should just say something like the following:

"I don't wait for the world to pass me by. I have enough friends, take care."

"Gay. Got enough friends, bye"

You insinuate that she's wasting her time not moving forward with you and make it clear that you're not interested in a friends type situation, then wish her well.

She'll be blowing up your phone, ignore it for a couple days. Then tell her to "bring the movies."

I'm struggling with a girl who's not putting out right now too, but it's been more dates and it's much less clear cut. This seems simple because she's shit-testing you and you just have to draw your line in the sand and walk away. Whether she follows or not is up to her.

Post: #18

Yeah three and done. And dates one and two should include her telling you "no".

You need to turn it up some man. Be more aggressive and let them know what you want from the start. Go for make out halfway through the first date and feel her up some by the end of the night, at a bare minimum. Date two should include prolonged make outs and some groping and you trying for more. Third should result in bang or very close to it. This is worst case scenario.

Think about it this way. It can be VERY hard for two busy people to find time to sync schedules and meet up. Doing this three times is real dedication of your valuable time. If you're having a great time together, sex should be happening after this amount of work. If not, someone's time is getting wasted.

Post: #19

(04-01-2013 03:40 PM)presidentcarter Wrote:  Yeah three and done. And dates one and two should include her telling you "no".

You need to turn it up some man. Be more aggressive and let them know what you want from the start. Go for make out halfway through the first date and feel her up some by the end of the night, at a bare minimum. Date two should include prolonged make outs and some groping and you trying for more. Third should result in bang or very close to it. This is worst case scenario.

Think about it this way. It can be VERY hard for two busy people to find time to sync schedules and meet up. Doing this three times is real dedication of your valuable time. If you're having a great time together, sex should be happening after this amount of work. If not, someone's time is getting wasted.

You have a point but I've had better success by not projecting too much attraction in my dates. I never try to kiss them or do any kino during my dates. That way, they are never sure if I am into them and this pulls them in. Remember the one step forward, two steps back principle. By pushing a girl back and projecting your indifference you are making her more attracted to yourself. Also, when I invite them over, there is plausible deniability, they think that the worst that can happen is that I am inviting them over for a makeout.

But if you have already made out at dates before, it's obvious to her that the next step is going to be a lay if I invite her to my place.

Once I do get them over and watching a movie laying down together on a couch with me it's just a matter of an hour of time before I put my arm around her to get comfortable. At that point I can go for a makeout and for jackpot. A makeout at a date is useless to me, I can't finish the deed in a cafe.

Take them by surprise

Post: #20

(04-01-2013 04:40 PM)chamele0n Wrote:  You have a point but I've had better success by not projecting too much attraction in my dates. I never try to kiss them or do any kino during my dates. That way, they are never sure if I am into them and this pulls them in.

Is this what works for you in Russia? If it does, great, but you have to keep in mind that most advice here is going to be given with American girls in mind unless you specify otherwise.

Your approach will almost never work in America. If you don't at least try and kiss an American girl on a date, forget it, you will pretty much never see her again. Guys recommend going for the bang with American girls because sometimes if you don't go for it all the way the first time, there won't be a second time. Yes it's kind of crazy, but that's the game.

Post: #21

Quote:The reason I say he's doing something wrong is because he's expecting women to bang him by the 3rd date but he's not giving them the opportunity to do so. It's very unlikely that a chick is going to say at the end of a 3rd (or 4th!) coffee date that she wants to go back home and bone. Instead he has to create a situation where sex (or at the very least serious escalation) can just happen. She needs to be able to tell herself (and her friends), "Oh we just went back to his place to check out his amazing stamp collection and then one thing led to another..."

This is spot-on. OP, your main problem is that you're taking girls on multiple coffee dates. As Roosh once wrote, "nobody every got laid at a coffee shop." Unless the girl is under drinking age, there is no reason to go on more than one date with a girl at a coffee shop, and they should even be avoided as first dates if possible. At least with American girls, sitting across from each other in a well-lit cafe kills any sexual tension, and it gives girls exactly what they want (time and attention) without burdening them with even the most remote possibility they will have to give you what you desire.

There are tons of girls who will go on infinity coffee dates with you but have no interest in sleeping with you. Conversely, there are very few girls who are sexually interested in you but unwilling to get a drink, eat dinner at your place, watch a movie, etc. on the second or third date.

Therefore, your screening process is flawed and inefficient. Drop the coffee dates, be more firm about the second or third date at a bar or your place, and save yourself a lot of time weeding out the women who are ultimately not attracted to you.

Edit: Just saw that you are in Russia. Some of this may be less applicable, but the general principle still stands. You may have to buy dinner or something (guys have mentioned that Russian women are more interested in provisioning than Americans), but at least that gets you to a place where you can sit next to her and have a couple drinks, which is still light years better than coffee shops.

Post: #22

(04-01-2013 03:05 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  The longer a girl makes you wait the less attractive you are to her.
No girl is going to keep her legs together for her dream guy.

This. She wouldn't make Brad Pitt wait. But then again, Brad Pitt would putz around in cafes for four dates.

(04-01-2013 03:05 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  The answer is in your post, you drop her on the third date.

I disagree. Don't act like an asexual gay best friend for two dates and then shock her on the third date. The original poster is afraid to display sexual intent. So he acts like a surreptitious, creepy, beta, nice guy on early dates. Then he gets frustrated and indignant when she doesn't put out.

You need to own your sexuality and be honest about your sexual intent. You don't want to be pushy or desperate, because you have options. But you want to make it quite clear that you are not interested in making a new friend or wasting time.

I reread the thread title "How do you hint?". You do compliance tests and kino games. You make strong eye contact. You sit next to her (show her your Iphone pictures). You hold your forearm out for her to grasp while walking. You rest your hand on her shoulder, then her back, then her thigh. If she doesn't cooperate then you freeze her out.

Why should a man agonize over whether a woman likes him, whether she will permit escalation on the next date. Kiss her and find out already.

Post: #23

Divorco is right. OP is dating all wrong. You need to read the link below -

This is possibly the best post on this entire forum:

/thread-8681.h...light=date

Post: #24

If its past the third date ($30 drinks cap) and no lay, Its just a next. It's may be painful but man must thrive on order and laws

Post: #25

(04-01-2013 05:58 PM)Black Knight Wrote:  

Quote:The reason I say he's doing something wrong is because he's expecting women to bang him by the 3rd date but he's not giving them the opportunity to do so. It's very unlikely that a chick is going to say at the end of a 3rd (or 4th!) coffee date that she wants to go back home and bone. Instead he has to create a situation where sex (or at the very least serious escalation) can just happen. She needs to be able to tell herself (and her friends), "Oh we just went back to his place to check out his amazing stamp collection and then one thing led to another..."

Therefore, your screening process is flawed and inefficient. Drop the coffee dates, be more firm about the second or third date at a bar or your place, and save yourself a lot of time weeding out the women who are ultimately not attracted to you.

Edit: Just saw that you are in Russia. Some of this may be less applicable, but the general principle still stands. You may have to buy dinner or something (guys have mentioned that Russian women are more interested in provisioning than Americans), but at least that gets you to a place where you can sit next to her and have a couple drinks, which is still light years better than coffee shops.

Nice procedural breakdown incorporating chickneed for DENIABILITY.

I also am backing off on advocating the use of "frigid." It's just needlessly mean, they can't help it-- it's their wiring.

I'm thinking "low-drive" might be a little less judgmental.

But the principle is the same, a big minority of women are simply not DTF and will rarely change.