Post: #1

I've probably had the toughest 48 hours I've had for years, if not ever.

My brother is two years you get than me and is 24 next month.

He has been abusing drugs since he was 14 to varying levels. Addicted to weed til he was maybe 20. Not that's a big issue. He's had almost every drug in the book from standard ones like xtc and coke to a ton of random ones that you have to be in an the know enthusiast to have heard of.

He has a terrible episode on New Years where he took methadone and tripped so bad that he thought his housemates were spying on him and smashed one of their rooms up. My parents had to drive 200 miles there and back to pick him up and he was till acting psychotic the whole day after.

Cause of this he had to take the year off university, the idea being to get clean.

Until this week I don't think we all realise quite as fully how bad he is and was.

He was takin ketamine everyday before. He's a borderline alcoholic.

He managed to go through January completely sober which I think or at least hope offers some glimmer of hope of getting through this.

He has been completely psychotic for close to 48 hours and I and my family has had to take turns watching him in case he harms himself or someone else.

He finally fell asleep two hours ago. Some of the stuff he was the saying and the behaviour was just beyond insane and painful.

He's a good guy, suffers from low self esteem, especially as he went from skinny to fat in the last 18 months. I think he is addicted to food and porn as well.

My little brother cried three times today. He's 18 and such a nice kid. My parents had to miss half of work an then go in with this still all happening. They are the most perfect parents you could ask for.

He has it all on a plate but doesn't look after himself and has a deep seeded, skewed attitude towards drugs and alcohol. He just thinks its okay and he can control it.

I'm due to leave home for six months this weekend and I'm really upset that this has got to the point it has now and not a month ago although he has tripped out pretty bad 3 weeks ago. Not like this though.

He drinks a lot too. Used to smoke, does on and off now.

Handed over his mushroom plant box and several other packs of pills last night when he was paranoid that we had called the police on him. Insane considering we never had threatened that ever.

I just feel so helpless and frustrated because it it feels so out of our hands. There is a hope that he can change but also a very real fear that this could get worse.

Has anyone here experienced addiction themselves or a friend or family member?

I don't know what I'm looking for here. I have to be honest, I'm not sure if I will even be able to bring myself to read the replies. I don't know. I just wanted to type it out and tell someone.

We're going to give him a choice tomorrow when he is sober. 0 tolerance to any substances. 0. Or I'll sack him from the cushy job I've given him and he will am have to move out.

We're such a tight knit fan though that I know kicking him out would destroy every ounce of happiness in our lives.

I have to believe we can figure something out and help him. He is a good person, no one would ever say otherwise but he has some mental issues.

Post: #2

Best of luck, man.

Post: #3

he needs to change from the inside, which either comes or it doesnt with time.

but the thing is he feels that no one understands what its like to be addicted to things, and people who don't have addiction issues really dont understand at the slightest level what its like to be addicted. the best analogy for addict-to-nonaddict is 18 year old blonde-to-45 year old nuclear physicist

thats the most frustrating thing is that people just tell you to "get it together" but they dont understand how fucking deep it goes and you can't just "get it together" without some paradigm shift, which like I said above, only happens when the gods have deemed "it's time" if ever.

Post: #4

Thanks. I feel that although there are many extremely gloomy signs there are some things to suggest he hasn't gone over the edge yet. I think we will find out if that can be avoided or not in the coming days and months.

I have this real sense of guilt that I am leaving my parents and brother at this point. I have everything paid for and lined up so I just dunno. If it gets back ill come back home, no doubt.

I was supposed to be going to another city to see a bunch of old friends tomo. A really special reunion with my best friends who I haven't seen in a solid year but in not gonna go. Doesn't feel right.

Don't mean to waffle and moan. I don't expect anyone to read this crap but it feels good to type it out anyways. This forum is uniquely positive in so many ways.

Post: #5

There is nothing you can do about it. He will decide to quit only if he wants and the best thing you and your family friends can do is not enable him.

Post: #6

(03-28-2013 07:09 PM)guerrilla Wrote:  he needs to change from the inside, which either comes or it doesnt with time.

but the thing is he feels that no one understands what its like to be addicted to things, and people who don't have addiction issues really dont understand at the slightest level what its like to be addicted. the best analogy for addict-to-nonaddict is 18 year old blonde-to-45 year old nuclear physicist

thats the most frustrating thing is that people just tell you to "get it together" but they dont understand how fucking deep it goes and you can't just "get it together" without some paradigm shift, which like I said above, only happens when the gods have deemed "it's time" if ever.

Very real response, I appreciate it.

The worry is as you say, it is all up to him as we have practically zero influence. I understand this and I think that's what scares me the most. It happens or it doesn't and if it does. What is the cost to get to that point.

Post: #7

(03-28-2013 07:18 PM)bacon Wrote:  There is nothing you can do about it. He will decide to quit only if he wants and the best thing you and your family friends can do is not enable him.

Yeah. I need to get this firmly into my mothers head as she is soft in a never dying love way.

We need to not enable him. Stick and carrot also but no more than you would anyone else.

Post: #8

How about getting him professional help?

Post: #9

Do you feel that the way we react to his behavior and the consequence of it has any affect on whether he decides to quit or not?

I mean he cares about us so surely of we show how much he is hurting us that at least has some impact?

Post: #10

(03-28-2013 07:24 PM)BurnFirst Wrote:  How about getting him professional help?

He has too. We nearly made him last time but let it slide. This time he either does or he moves out and I'll sack him from the job I give him.

It surely can't hurt anyways.

Post: #11

I'm dealing with a good friend of mine being a very bad alcoholic right now. She got fired from her job from drinking on the job. She went to rehab and puts out the persona that she is sober. She has admitted that she has relapsed a couple times, but the truth is she is drinking every day. Her sister was in town the other day and my other friend was talking to her sister about how she knows she's drinking and how it's fucked up she is lying. She overheard the conversation and got mad about it. I'm hoping that it opened her eyes a little but I'm not sure. I'm moving to where she lives Saturday so I'm hoping that I can help her out a little by doing other things with her to take her mind off drinking.

I wish the best of luck to you and your family man, its a tough thing to deal with. I've had lots of friends hooked on heroin and it really fucked a lot of their lives up, at the very least it set them back a couple years trying to get clean and making mistakes like being kicked out of school.

Post: #12

(03-28-2013 07:38 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  I'm dealing with a good friend of mine being a very bad alcoholic right now. She got fired from her job from drinking on the job. She went to rehab and puts out the persona that she is sober. She has admitted that she has relapsed a couple times, but the truth is she is drinking every day. Her sister was in town the other day and my other friend was talking to her sister about how she knows she's drinking and how it's fucked up she is lying. She overheard the conversation and got mad about it. I'm hoping that it opened her eyes a little but I'm not sure. I'm moving to where she lives Saturday so I'm hoping that I can help her out a little by doing other things with her to take her mind off drinking.

I wish the best of luck to you and your family man, its a tough thing to deal with. I've had lots of friends hooked on heroin and it really fucked a lot of their lives up, at the very least it set them back a couple years trying to get clean and making mistakes like being kicked out of school.

Thanks for sharing and you are good friend trying to help her. A lot of "friends" quit on people when they are down.

Post: #13

I am very skeptical of the effectiveness of rehab and AA

Post: #14

(03-28-2013 07:43 PM)Jbk Wrote:  

(03-28-2013 07:38 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  I'm dealing with a good friend of mine being a very bad alcoholic right now. She got fired from her job from drinking on the job. She went to rehab and puts out the persona that she is sober. She has admitted that she has relapsed a couple times, but the truth is she is drinking every day. Her sister was in town the other day and my other friend was talking to her sister about how she knows she's drinking and how it's fucked up she is lying. She overheard the conversation and got mad about it. I'm hoping that it opened her eyes a little but I'm not sure. I'm moving to where she lives Saturday so I'm hoping that I can help her out a little by doing other things with her to take her mind off drinking.

I wish the best of luck to you and your family man, its a tough thing to deal with. I've had lots of friends hooked on heroin and it really fucked a lot of their lives up, at the very least it set them back a couple years trying to get clean and making mistakes like being kicked out of school.

Thanks for sharing and you are good friend trying to help her. A lot of "friends" quit on people when they are down.

Thanks. I had a bit of a drug problem for a little bit in high school, but it wasn't a huge problem. A lot of my friends gave up on me though or stopped hanging out with me. It's annoying when I go home now and people think I'm still like that (I pretty much quit doing drugs when I moved, it helped a lot). Little do they know I have accomplished probably much more than many of them and speak 3 languages and have seen a decent part of the Americas. Most of them haven't traveled more than 1 state over. I kind of feel bad for them now. In comparison to most of the people who judged me back then, I'm killing it at life. Now all I have to do is get a business and mobile income rolling, which I'm working on this year.

Post: #15

Here's the thing about rehab/pressuring him to get help vs laissez-faire.

When people pressure you to get help, oftentimes you do the opposite and are like "fuck you, im gonna do what I want to." BUT THE THING IS THEY KNOW IN THE BACK OF THEIR HEAD THAT THEY'RE DOING IT WRONG. They can ignore you all they want, but the constant reminder that they're a fuck up NEEDS TO BE THERE if change is ever gonna happen.

the laissez faire people who say "let them figure it out for themselves", well if the addict doesnt have that constant ANNOYING REMINDER (no matter how much they lash out at it) that their fucking up, well chances are they're just gonna go deeper and deeper down the hole.

So what I said before - the change has to come from within and it only comes when they're ready - is completely true, but OTOH if that change is gonna come, the CONSTANT REMINDER AND PRESSURE TO GET HELP actually is the catalyst for that change (whether it comes this year or in 5 years or in 10 years).

But still, I think the best thing to do is to get someone who's been addicted (and not one of the religious found-god loonies) to talk to him. Nonaddicts just don't fucking understand what its like to be addicted, they have no clue at all. If he sees a specialist, make sure that counselor had a drug problem himself before becoming a counselor, because the counselors who didn't just dont fucking understand.

Post: #16

Thanks both for very insightful replies.

I'm off to bed now. 4 hours sleep inter last 30 cuz of this. A good sleep and a clear head will help.

The replies have been very useful to me in planning how I am going to advise my whole fam to approach this. Thanks again!

Post: #17

(03-28-2013 08:29 PM)Jbk Wrote:  Thanks both for very insightful replies.

I'm off to bed now. 4 hours sleep inter last 30 cuz of this. A good sleep and a clear head will help.

The replies have been very useful to me in planning how I am going to advise my whole fam to approach this. Thanks again!

A little inspiration for you bud. A lot of my friends I knew that were heroin addicts are currently killing it at life. One is an engineer making mad bread. Another is a limo driver in Vegas and making a good living doing that, but more importantly he is very happy in life. He has two kids and he's a great father. Another one last I checked was raising horses and opened up a business in Town Square. Your bro still has plenty of time to turn himself around, and when he does life will be so much better for him, I just hope he sees that.

Post: #18

I wish you the best. We've had family go with rehab + AA and become "recovered". It's something they deal with the rest of their lives, but I hope you guys pull through.

Post: #19

As someone already alluded to change has to come from within. Like the scene from the Matrix where Morpheus says to Neo "I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it."

When I first started making good money I went through bouts of borderline alcoholism and the odd week long drug spree. In hindsight it was because I was unhappy with myself. I had no goals and no plans for the future. Working crazy hours without any long term plans was depressing. So I self-medicated.

I had to figure things out for myself. Having things to look forward and goals definitely helps.

Post: #20

First-I want thank you for sharing this man. I dont know how other guys feel, and I dont exactly want this to be a forum where we come to bitch about things/talk about bad things-but at all points in life we go through hard times like these. Shitty economies and crazy world events don't help either.

Just a little story about me man, I've been through some dark times in my past, been on a mix of different drugs growing up, and been down some VERY dark places personally due to different medications and rough times personally. The poster who made the reference of addiction and someone not being able to relate to it (if they aren't themselves) is COMPLETELY true. You feel distant from everything else, as said-without an overall plan/goal-why not fuck up your future and stay addicted? Its the only thing that gives you ANYTHING. It's like a feeling of where you CAN'T see ANYTHING else. You feel blinded. NO hope whatsoever. What go me through those times were some personal realizations (as said, INTRINSIC CHANGE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk280jVuH1w)-hitting the gym HARD (SUPER confidence booster) and just getting myself out to meet more peoples.

To fix : First you MUST get him professional help. He NEEDS to talk to a professional or someone who has been there before. Being able to relate with someone about that level and just get things OUT is severely important. He needs to clean his body, and eat healthy-and exercise helps both of those. Plus, who knows who he might meet at the gym or impress with his new physical prowess? (etc.)

Two: As stated, your family (or mom) must be aware that she could be possibly enabling him. Now these times you must be a bit sensitive to the situation, but tough love must also be there as well. He is fucking up yalls lives, and you should only put up with that to a certain extent. He needs yalls help, but again DON'T enable him.

Now YES, it is true that you can't completely help people in these situations UNLESS they want to help themselves-however 1-I believe people should always be given a bit of help/hand and you seem like a good guy. 2-again-its called ADDICTION for a reason. For some going through this, it is hard as HELL to see outside of it. Again, you feel blind and helpless. Impotent. It's a TERRIBLE feeling. I recommend you get him professional help immediately, no matter what. It's for everyones own good.

Breaks my heart to hear man, I looked into becoming a counselor years ago when I took time off school to figure personal shit out-and wanted to help guys through shit like this. I wish you the best of luck man, and try to get him exercising immediately (you already said he has gained weight right? I'd imagine all us here know how much that KILLS your confidence in ALL aspects of life).

Wish you luck and peace man

Post: #21

have you considered maybe joining something that you two are mutually interested in. Like if you guys enjoy watching or playing a certain sport maybe the two of you could join a league together. Sometimes if you do enough things that remove yourself from a particular environment that elicits the need to use the drugs and you become involved in a bunch of positive activities it takes your mind off of that lifestyle. Maybe volunteering in a homeless shelter or soup kitchen could humble him to the realities of substance abuse and how it can devastate someones life.

Post: #22

Get professional help. Think how you'll feel if he gets worse, and you didn't.

If he refuses to go and something happens, at least you tried.

If he is a imminent danger to himself or others, you can try to have a doctor evaluate him for commitment even if he doesn't want it. However, it is hard to substantiate that he is a clear and present danger to himself. He can't just be obnoxious and stoned.

Post: #23

You should do some research on Ibogaine, it has been proven to give addicts a real chance to quit whatever they are addicted to.

It is a psychedelic plant that has the effetcs of freeing addicts from craving addictive substances ( heroin, meth, crack etc..)

Post: #24

I have extensive experience with drugs and have known many addicts. The key to breaking the chain is getting him out of the situation that got him there in the first place. What I mean by that is you need to get him into detox somehow. This is more difficult then it sounds because he either has to do it voluntarily, or have it court ordered (i.e. arrested, charged, and convicted). This is an important step since it gets the drugs out of his system, but it's only the first step.

The next step is the heart of the battle. He needs to change his whole setting in life. He needs to stop seeing his friends that he runs with, and going to the places he goes. This is why AA/NA doesn't work. It doesn't get addicts away from their triggers. It's just a bunch of drunks/junkies in a room sharing war stories. Ninety-five percent of people in the 12 step program go back to being addicts within 48 months. My belief is that you need to uproot the addict, not make them stew in the past.

Family becomes very important during the recovery process. Most families want to berate the addict because they have no clue what the fuck it's like (guerrilla put it well). This is the absolute worst thing to do as it will just drive the addict back to their comfort zone, drugs. Once he gets through detox, you need to take it upon yourself to spend as much time as possible with him so that he is stimulated enough to forget about it for a little while. It never goes away, but it gets easier with each day. You must understand though, there will be setbacks. Most rehab types drill the idea that relapse means starting at zero. This is bullshit. A good way to put it is someone learning game having a beta moment. Just like game, recovery is a trial and error process. Everyone needs to find their own way of doing things before it clicks.

I don't know what your cash flow is like, but I suggest taking him on vacation far away to someplace neither of you have ever been before. The chemicals that will surge through his brain will be similar to those that are produced when he's doing drugs. It's a very long process and you need to be the strong one. I wish you luck, you're gonna need it.

Post: #25

Take him to all the support groups you can find and hit on all the venerable bishes.