Post: #1

You know this stuff is never more than an arm's length away whenever you're in self-help or personal development related circles, so always be on the look out for these and other 'business opportunities' (this one apparently manosphere related):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y60XdZJG83U

Post: #2

yeah such wank.

same with internet marketing, you're never one step away from a $2000 dollar platinum course from a guru that will teach you no more than what you could get from a couple of good books.

I wonder why some industries get inundated with this crap and others stay free of it?

Post: #3

google "zeekler" if you want to see a ponzi scheme come undone

Post: #4

(10-28-2012 01:13 PM)RichieP Wrote:  yeah such wank.

same with internet marketing, you're never one step away from a $2000 dollar platinum course from a guru that will teach you no more than what you could get from a couple of good books.

I wonder why some industries get inundated with this crap and others stay free of it?

I actually think in most cases the products are just chosen to look as "legit" as possible (Mary Kay's cosmetics or Amway's household cleaners) to disguise the pyramid structure of the game, but in other cases the products are self-help info products specifically designed to make prospects salivate.

Ever heard of the Empower Network?

This is a new one that I SUSPECT actually meets the legal definition of a pyramid scheme. The 'products' are just Empower Network sales manuals.

Post: #5

The people who run these operations are good at selling and selecting a target market. That market would be 'empowered women' who don't know shit about business, the emotional hook of the sales gets them.

Post: #6

I've had people pitch MLM schemes to me and there is a certain hind-brain appeal. It's like being in casino. You see this path to quick money and those pleasure centers in your brain start getting stimulated. Of course, after that wears off, you think about it and realize that the way to make money is to convince a bunch of other suckers to follow you into this scheme.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has bought into a MLM company? How did it work out?

Post: #7

(10-28-2012 04:15 PM)j r Wrote:  I've had people pitch MLM schemes to me and there is a certain hind-brain appeal. It's like being in casino. You see this path to quick money and those pleasure centers in your brain start getting stimulated. Of course, after that wears off, you think about it and realize that the way to make money is to convince a bunch of other suckers to follow you into this scheme.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has bought into a MLM company? How did it work out?

I've never signed on with an MLM company before, but I went to a "job interview" with Primerica, lol.

Post: #8

After reading the Meyers/Briggs thread, I read up on my type, INTJ, and it says

"Salespeople. INTJs are immune to emotional manipulation and have zero tolerance for lines of bullshit."

And for me it's true. MMM tactics have never appealed to me, and when I read them I'm subconciously doing notation on the ad-copy in case I need to appeal to similar emotions of future buyers. But I've never gone ahead and tried to pull those same strings. I don't know why - something just seems so... sleazy about it. I'd almost rather being involved in honest outright theft.

SEA girls seem to be particularly credulous, and pyramid schemes aren't even illegal here. Actually, I copied out a flyer a girlfriend had paid for and changed it to include bank accounts that were all under her name instead of keeping the top two on the list, and had her distribute them around town. The effort made a few bucks.

What can I say - we were pretty broke at the time, and it was only 5 bucks people spent. Ya. Kinda sleazy.

But if you want to go big time with it you send out spam and sms spam. People are SO credulous here.

Post: #9

Watch out for USANA, APPCO, and Ecosway as well.

Post: #10

I got approached when I was in Barnes and Noble. Pretty crazy about how they go about. Cultlike. Scary.

Post: #11

I once succumbed to a Quixtar pitch by a dude who started talking to me in a grocery store parking lot. I went to one of the intro meetings and realized what it was.

Post: #12

(10-28-2012 09:50 PM)PartyonBro Wrote:  I got approached when I was in Barnes and Noble. Pretty crazy about how they go about. Cultlike. Scary.

You know what the worst part about all this is?

It makes cold canvassing look bad even for legit businesses.

Post: #13

How much money are they making out of seminars?

Post: #14

I have had the pleasure of throwing these people out of my house. This was years ago before everyone had cell phones. The next thing I did was put a message on my answering machine thanking the caller for phoning into the "Anti-Amway Attack Force". They never bothered me again.

Post: #15

worst is when they try to recruit friends and family to join the cult. I was at a family party and all of a sudden it turned into some MLM pitch about some dermal cream or something. I left immediately. such crap.

that being said, I'd like to be on the other side of the equation.

Post: #16

Thanks for the video, OP. I haven't seen this episode yet.

The closest I've come to MLM was a "sales interview" I went to when I was desperate for work several years ago. Since then, I've realized that guys like Jim Rohn (old-school business/self improvement speaker and the guy Tony Robbins began his career with) were into MLM heavily. I still read his books and listen to his speeches, but I take everything he says about sales and the speed of his success with a grain of salt. It just takes intellectual discipline.

Post: #17

Zeekler! Wow, thanks for mentioning that. A buddy of mine who's got a history of being a little gullible was telling me about all the money he was making from ZeekRewards.com. I think the returns he was talking about were on the order of 14,000%. I told him it was a scam, and that nothing, but NOTHING, gets those kinds of returns for any sustained period. Especially not anything open to the general public. He protested and asked me to sign up, said it would help him out a ton. I told him I don't get involved in shady marketing shit, and forgot all about it.

Glad to know that's how the story ended. Stay away from these things.

Post: #18

I've never met a soul who made a dime off this shit. Penn and Teller did a devastating take down on the whole concept.

Post: #19

I looked into it heavily and have been heavily pitched by many different scams. Keep in mind the ponzi scheme structure is illegal in MANY countries, how it keeps popping up in the U.S. is beyond me. I was involved in ACN at 18 yrs old which was a internet/phone MLM company. Seems like the guys in MLM are all desperate, even if they have a shitty product that breaks or never works they keep holding on, "its not for everyone" they would say and I'd be like, "seriously? who the hell would want to pay for a phone service that barely ever works?"

What I've noticed are most of the people who stay involved are shady and they know it but are too brainwashed and motivated by greed. I had to do a shady thing once just to get someone signed up, felt guilty as hell and i helped everyone i signed up negotiate new contracts with local providers and reduce costs when i realized it was a scam. The guy 2 levels up from me lost his job as a superintendent for the largest charter school in my town bc he was funneling school funds to pay for trips for his MLM scam and got caught.

The people who stay involved keep jumping from one mlm to the next, if you have a friend who invites you to one of the meetings or "interviews" just cut him/her out of your life. They wont make it anywhere in life and you dont want to waste your time with those kinds of people. Ive seen firsthand where many of those people end up 5 years down the line... surround yourself with winners not losers.

Post: #20

I'll revive this old thread.

Andy_B, do you even know what a pyramid scheme is? Do you know the legal definition and parameters of a pyramid scheme? Not trying to start an argument with you but at least give an informed opinion.

A pyramid scheme is illegal. A pyramid scheme has no products/services and only consists of investors investing money into a structure in which the person at the top makes the most money and runs off with the invested money.

I myself am an Amway distributor - an amazing network marketing company with an awesome track record. Check BBB ratings, check the FTC ruling, check the sponsorships. Amazing products. However, I DON'T WORK FOR AMWAY and neither do any of the weirdos you guys came across at the library or parking lot. Everyone just has a contractual agreement to distribute Amway products. Like a Costcos membership.

If someone with a Costcos membership decided to buy bulks of products and resell them in shady and unconventional ways. Do you blame Costcos? Or do you blame the ignorant person who made dumb decisions with his Costcos membership? If you purchased a Boeing 747 and crashed it into the sea. Do you blame Boeing or the fatigued pilot driving the 747?

There was a controversial Forbes article out on the MLM industry which boldly asserted that the MLM industry is poised for explosive growth in today's economy because of the worldwide recession. Robert Kiyosaki, Rich Dad Poor Dad author, himself never built a MLM company but publicly endorses the industry with his book Business of the 21st Century because he believes that it enables the average person to become an entrepreneur and achieve financial independence.

Personally, I'm a red pill man. I love the value that I've gained throughout the years reading off the RVF. I found that the best vehicle to achieve financial and geographic independence is by building a profitable MLM company in which business ownership is in your hands. Essentially your own private franchise. Look for two things: 1) a great MLM company with an amazing track record and compensation plan that PAYS YOU and NOT the company. 2) a great personal development/training system partnered up with the MLM company that provides (leadership, people skills, relationship, and sales training) in order to succeed.

I didn't spend time writing this to promote Amway. Could care less if you guys truly investigate the industry and the opportunity for what it really is. Don't write off the MLM industry as being an illegal pyramid scheme (if you even know what a pyramid scheme is), if it could serve young guys an opportunity to build their own business and achieve financial independence.

The amazing thing about the MLM industry is that it allows the average person an OPPORTUNITY to build a business where you don't need hundreds of thousands of dollars to invest in (a Mcdonalds/Subway) franchise and it only costs a few hundred dollars entry fee. The worse thing about the MLM industry is that it allows the average person (meaning anyone in the general pop.) an OPPORTUNITY to build a business. If they do shady shit and scam peoples money, it ain't Amways fault, it ain't Nu-Skin' fault, it ain't Mary Kay's fault, its that person with the business license who made a dumb decision.

The reason I defend the MLM industry is because I can't do what Roosh does, I can't do what Krauser does (investment banker) and I've read enough articles on ROK on the legal profession and such that its not worth investing time/money/energy into. I find that baby boomers have a HUGE negative connotation with the MLM industry because of wackos (I've heard some pretty weird stories of the things people did back in the day) and that negative image of the MLM industry persists to this day. In my region, the majority of people entering MLM are people in their early to mid twenties because we get it. We get the business model and how it works. MLM (the right company) is not a product business, its a people business.

You empower the average person to become a business owner and achieve FREEDOM. Isn't that what America's founding principles/values stood for?

Post: #21

Here's a detailed takedown of the Amway scam: http://www.apollowebworks.com/amway/amintro.html

Post: #22

An acquaintance was trying to get me into MLM. They try to control your language, but it just ends up being funny. My family likes the guy, so I wanted show him using Math why it doesn't work for all but a few people. While explaining, he said to me, "it's not recruitment, it's called enrollment."

Me: Here, look at this pyramid.
Him: It's not a pyramid!
Me: Fine, look at this triangle.

He quit after a few months.

Post: #23

People still fall for these scams, unbelievable!

Post: #24

I liked the idea of Lyoness (an Austrian MLM company) before I realized that approximately 1% of its potential benefits comes from actual discounts and 99% comes from selling Lyoness to other people. No thanks.

Post: #25

There are some legitimate ones out there but the big money is usually only made by people that got in very early and have been around for a long time. A girl I was recently dating quit her HR corporate gig to do Mary Kay full time. She hasn't replaced her corporate income with it yet but she enjoys it a lot more, so that's a plus. People that are able to put in the work to even make a spare $1,000 per month in these businesses would often be very good at some other business involving face to face sales, like real estate or insurance.

If you would enjoy doing something like Herbalife, Mary Kay, Amway, etc. more than rotting in a cubicle at some suburban office park, more power to you. Just don't buy the B.S. about being able to make 6 figures after a couple of years while working only 10 hours per week. It's a long hard road to "Easy Street" just like any other business, but it can be done.