Scotian, the technician degree is great if you want to get out of the field and into a site-based office position such as project coordinator. Even a 4 year engineering graduate will start out as a coordinator. A few of the guys I work with took the CET---->project coordinator-->project manager path. Some of the small to mid size companies will consider CETs for operations management. It seems that ALL the big wigs for the larger companies are engineering graduates (usually with P.Eng designation).

That being said, the management jobs are great when things are going well but they are hideous when things turn bad. Its not necessarily a better path for everyone--just a different path.

Most of the coordinators we hire are CETs. The reason is that, in order to attract EITs (engineer in training), we have to pay them more and we tend to lose them before we develop them into PMgrs. As a journeyman, you'd carry a LOT of in-the-field experience and would likely move up a little faster than the typical fresh graduate. I'll find out what the pay difference is for our engineering grads vs CETs next week and let you know.

(10-06-2012 03:28 PM)scotian Wrote:  

(10-06-2012 02:44 PM)catalyst Wrote:  Haha. Probably still stuck with no tenure. I've never seen a young-ish Mathematics professor, most of them are in their late 40-50s. But I have to say its not getting better. I am seeing an increasing number of classmates who are in university doing a second bachelor degree (not referring to a professional bachelors degree such as education or law) due to a lack of job prospects. It's not a good sign.

Its crazy, every other day I read headlines in Canadian newspapers that read "Major labour shortage looming in Alberta and Saskatchewan" then on page two "dismal job prospects for university grads" and of course "university grads unable to pay off massive student loans".

It makes me want to bang my head against the wall, teachers and guidance counselors brainwash high school students into going to university, not matter what subject, so we have an abundance of BA grads with degrees in gender studies and basket weaving who flip burgers and work in retail. The trades are completely ignored and we're forced to look abroad for labour.

Its too bad so many young Canadians are such pussies, they'll whine and complain about how bad the job prospects are back east but don't have the balls to get on a plane and move out west and get their hands dirty.

Even if you don't want to work up north and live in a camp, there's plenty of work in the office towers of downtown Calgary and Edmonton for anyone willing to make the move.

If I was Prime Minister, I would make all those shitheads who can't pay off their government student loans get on an airplane and move to Hellberta for a few months to pay them off, same for all the welfare cheats and pogey scammers!

The Toronto papers always skirt around the issues of jobs, they talk nonsense about how many jobs were created. This of course is numbers they grab out of thin air.
Torontonians are snobs and yes pussies for the most part, Alberta might as well be Afghanistan to alot of people here. They would see a move like that as backwards, after all everyone moves to the center of the universe Tdot.
University costs are brutal here, one dude was telling me they charge $800 a year for him to park his car at school. WTF
With a trade you can never go hungry, but people here just want to work in an office and look important.
Brillant thread Scotian!!!

In fairness, there are trade offs. Trades require a lot of physical work. This often comes with injuries and long-term pain when you are older. It seems more probable to make 100k with a trade especially at a young age. However, the potential peak of someone with a useful university degree is potentially higher.

Can anyone tell me about security in the camp or the security companies out there, that's what I went to college for. I've been finding jobs on the net now for $20 and $30 bucks an hour, I simply can't believe that because I never made more than 8 to 10 bucks in Ontario doing security. Haven't been in the industry since I was a kid...nearly 10 years ago.

That is almost equivalent to what a new cop makes in Ontario. I never thought I would see those kind of wages for security guys.

(10-06-2012 08:28 PM)lavidaloca Wrote:  In fairness, there are trade offs. Trades require a lot of physical work. This often comes with injuries and long-term pain when you are older. It seems more probable to make 100k with a trade especially at a young age. However, the potential peak of someone with a useful university degree is potentially higher.

That depends on how smart you work.

(10-06-2012 08:47 PM)BadWolf Wrote:  Can anyone tell me about security in the camp or the security companies out there, that's what I went to college for. I've been finding jobs on the net now for $20 and $30 bucks an hour, I simply can't believe that because I never made more than 8 to 10 bucks in Ontario doing security. Haven't been in the industry since I was a kid...nearly 10 years ago.

That is almost equivalent to what a new cop makes in Ontario. I never thought I would see those kind of wages for security guys.

The security at the camp I'm working in is staffed by Garda security (http://www.gardaglobal.com/en/), they're the ones at the security gates and inside the camp. There are other security companies onsite, I'll try to keep an eye out for them at work tomorrow.

(10-06-2012 08:28 PM)lavidaloca Wrote:  In fairness, there are trade offs. Trades require a lot of physical work. This often comes with injuries and long-term pain when you are older. It seems more probable to make 100k with a trade especially at a young age. However, the potential peak of someone with a useful university degree is potentially higher.

I agree, to an extent. If a guy spends his entire career "on the tools" in one of the more labour intensive trades such as scaffolding or iron work, wacking hammers and doing heavy lifts all day, sure, his body is going to be pretty beat up after 30-40 years.

However, you don't need to spend your entire career on the tools, a guy can easily become a foreman, a general foreman or superintendent. If a guy plays his cards right and wants to get out of the field, he can get an office job, usually after 5-10 years in the field.

Myself, I figure that at 30, I have at least another 5 years, if not 10. I don't mind the physical part for now, I'm in decent shape and I'd rather be outside (unless its -40) than in an office any day. However, I don't want to be crawling around pipe racks and going into pressure vessels's when I'm 40+, that's why I'm looking to go back to school, if need be, in the next few years to give me the option of making good money on a 40 hour work week and being home every night, instead of working away all the time.

Hey Ecksie thanks for the reply man.

Hey man another question. I told my buddy about what you said. I basically copied it and emailed it to him.

He then asked me to ask you about the job prospects for his older cousin who has an Electronics Technician Diploma from college in Toronto, and an unfinished Bachelor of Technology from the same school with absolutely no experience. I was told that the guy could not find any job at all so he discontinued his degree. I think I met him once he was so down and he was also working in retail. He told me to post the list of his qualifications to you so you'd know since you're a technical guy. So that guy's qualifications are:

1) Bachelor of Technology - unfinished degree
2) Electronics Engineering Technician Diploma, completed but no experience
3) CCNNA = Cisco Certified Network Associate. i was told this was a hard to get thing but he didn't find a job either because there are no jobs in Ontario.
4) A+ certification.

The dude had to get any job he could find to pay bills and support his family. So I am told he didn't find any job in his field.

Would that guy be able to land any decent paying jobs?

(10-06-2012 08:28 PM)lavidaloca Wrote:  In fairness, there are trade offs. Trades require a lot of physical work. This often comes with injuries and long-term pain when you are older. It seems more probable to make 100k with a trade especially at a young age. However, the potential peak of someone with a useful university degree is potentially higher.

On average, that is true, if you take the average of a tradesman vis-a-vis the average university graduate. Even the Globe and Mail disputed the commonly held notion that university graduates earn a million more over their lifetime. The salary disparity is much greater with university graduates (e.g.. Engineer vs. Classics) than a tradesman (E.g. Welder vs. Electrician). Fort Mac also seems to be an exception in this regard as the pay is much higher. Something to think about.

(10-07-2012 01:32 AM)23Billion Wrote:  Hey Ecksie thanks for the reply man.

Hey man another question. I told my buddy about what you said. I basically copied it and emailed it to him.

He then asked me to ask you about the job prospects for his older cousin who has an Electronics Technician Diploma from college in Toronto, and an unfinished Bachelor of Technology from the same school with absolutely no experience. I was told that the guy could not find any job at all so he discontinued his degree. I think I met him once he was so down and he was also working in retail. He told me to post the list of his qualifications to you so you'd know since you're a technical guy. So that guy's qualifications are:

1) Bachelor of Technology - unfinished degree
2) Electronics Engineering Technician Diploma, completed but no experience
3) CCNNA = Cisco Certified Network Associate. i was told this was a hard to get thing but he didn't find a job either because there are no jobs in Ontario.
4) A+ certification.

The dude had to get any job he could find to pay bills and support his family. So I am told he didn't find any job in his field.

Would that guy be able to land any decent paying jobs?

This guy should be able to find something with his education alone, I worked with a guy (Kick currently works with him), who had a 2 year diploma in electric engineering from a college and an advanced degree in mathematics yet his only job experience was driving a taxi in Halifax. He finally decided to move out west at the age of 30 when his friend hooked him up with a job interview over the phone, he's been out here for 7 years now and is doing very well.

I'm a bit cautious about helping friends and family out now, unless they're young and fresh out of school. I tried getting some of my unemployed and under employed buddies to move out west, especially during the last boom, when literally companies were hurting so bad for employees anyone with a pulse could walk right into a 60K+ job off the street, often times way more.

The thing is that some people can't be helped, they either lack motivation or the balls to move away from friends and family and take a risk. I know a few guys who even paid for their friend's flight out west, gave them a room to live in and still some of these guys don't make it, they usually end up crashing on the sofa for a few weeks before moving back home, even more depressed than when they moved out.

All the same, if your buddy truly wants to work and is motivated, plenty of opportunity for him out here.

Hey scotian man thanks for the reply.

Yeah man I told him to come out West. He's an okay guy and a hard worker. Just today I heard about him and I was told that he's been working two dead end jobs, one full time and one part time. He's still working retail and and also got his cab license. If you ask me man, 5 - 10 years of retail sales experience doesn't count to much if you're barely making bill payments and borrowing from credit cards and revolving the debt.

I have even offered him that he could crash here in Regina at the place where I am living. I have already asked my friend and he's okay with it.

I've also told him to apply with companies online etc which he said he has been doing but he's not getting any responses. So my guess is that he should be in Alberta in person.

I do hope that guy finds a good job man.

(10-07-2012 11:23 AM)scotian Wrote:  

(10-07-2012 01:32 AM)23Billion Wrote:  Hey Ecksie thanks for the reply man.

Hey man another question. I told my buddy about what you said. I basically copied it and emailed it to him.

He then asked me to ask you about the job prospects for his older cousin who has an Electronics Technician Diploma from college in Toronto, and an unfinished Bachelor of Technology from the same school with absolutely no experience. I was told that the guy could not find any job at all so he discontinued his degree. I think I met him once he was so down and he was also working in retail. He told me to post the list of his qualifications to you so you'd know since you're a technical guy. So that guy's qualifications are:

1) Bachelor of Technology - unfinished degree
2) Electronics Engineering Technician Diploma, completed but no experience
3) CCNNA = Cisco Certified Network Associate. i was told this was a hard to get thing but he didn't find a job either because there are no jobs in Ontario.
4) A+ certification.

The dude had to get any job he could find to pay bills and support his family. So I am told he didn't find any job in his field.

Would that guy be able to land any decent paying jobs?

This guy should be able to find something with his education alone, I worked with a guy (Kick currently works with him), who had a 2 year diploma in electric engineering from a college and an advanced degree in mathematics yet his only job experience was driving a taxi in Halifax. He finally decided to move out west at the age of 30 when his friend hooked him up with a job interview over the phone, he's been out here for 7 years now and is doing very well.

I'm a bit cautious about helping friends and family out now, unless they're young and fresh out of school. I tried getting some of my unemployed and under employed buddies to move out west, especially during the last boom, when literally companies were hurting so bad for employees anyone with a pulse could walk right into a 60K+ job off the street, often times way more.

The thing is that some people can't be helped, they either lack motivation or the balls to move away from friends and family and take a risk. I know a few guys who even paid for their friend's flight out west, gave them a room to live in and still some of these guys don't make it, they usually end up crashing on the sofa for a few weeks before moving back home, even more depressed than when they moved out.

All the same, if your buddy truly wants to work and is motivated, plenty of opportunity for him out here.

(10-08-2012 02:09 AM)23Billion Wrote:  Hey scotian man thanks for the reply.

Yeah man I told him to come out West. He's an okay guy and a hard worker. Just today I heard about him and I was told that he's been working two dead end jobs, one full time and one part time. He's still working retail and and also got his cab license. If you ask me man, 5 - 10 years of retail sales experience doesn't count to much if you're barely making bill payments and borrowing from credit cards and revolving the debt.

I have even offered him that he could crash here in Regina at the place where I am living. I have already asked my friend and he's okay with it.

I've also told him to apply with companies online etc which he said he has been doing but he's not getting any responses. So my guess is that he should be in Alberta in person.

I do hope that guy finds a good job man.

(10-07-2012 11:23 AM)scotian Wrote:  

(10-07-2012 01:32 AM)23Billion Wrote:  Hey Ecksie thanks for the reply man.

Hey man another question. I told my buddy about what you said. I basically copied it and emailed it to him.

He then asked me to ask you about the job prospects for his older cousin who has an Electronics Technician Diploma from college in Toronto, and an unfinished Bachelor of Technology from the same school with absolutely no experience. I was told that the guy could not find any job at all so he discontinued his degree. I think I met him once he was so down and he was also working in retail. He told me to post the list of his qualifications to you so you'd know since you're a technical guy. So that guy's qualifications are:

1) Bachelor of Technology - unfinished degree
2) Electronics Engineering Technician Diploma, completed but no experience
3) CCNNA = Cisco Certified Network Associate. i was told this was a hard to get thing but he didn't find a job either because there are no jobs in Ontario.
4) A+ certification.

The dude had to get any job he could find to pay bills and support his family. So I am told he didn't find any job in his field.

Would that guy be able to land any decent paying jobs?

This guy should be able to find something with his education alone, I worked with a guy (Kick currently works with him), who had a 2 year diploma in electric engineering from a college and an advanced degree in mathematics yet his only job experience was driving a taxi in Halifax. He finally decided to move out west at the age of 30 when his friend hooked him up with a job interview over the phone, he's been out here for 7 years now and is doing very well.

I'm a bit cautious about helping friends and family out now, unless they're young and fresh out of school. I tried getting some of my unemployed and under employed buddies to move out west, especially during the last boom, when literally companies were hurting so bad for employees anyone with a pulse could walk right into a 60K+ job off the street, often times way more.

The thing is that some people can't be helped, they either lack motivation or the balls to move away from friends and family and take a risk. I know a few guys who even paid for their friend's flight out west, gave them a room to live in and still some of these guys don't make it, they usually end up crashing on the sofa for a few weeks before moving back home, even more depressed than when they moved out.

All the same, if your buddy truly wants to work and is motivated, plenty of opportunity for him out here.

This guy does not have a degree, the other qualifications Cisco and A+ are pretty popular in Ontario (GTA). The Electronics field has been dead for a long time here, I have friends who took that years ago.
I know a few companies he might be able to get work in the GTA, but he will be lucky to crack $40K/yr.

First- Thanks a million Scotian for the post on what to bring. You always post such good info. I plan on working my first rotation then buying the best gear I can. I cant buy it now cause of my budget but its not too cold just yet so should be fine with what I brought for my first 2 weeks up there.

Plus they said they would give me some gear and Ill buy some cheap thermals before I leave.

These camps sound disgusting -hopefully I luck out and get something nice. I am a bit of a clean freak when it comes to showering and sleeping haha.

(10-05-2012 11:38 PM)Ecksie Wrote:  I've had the opportunity of seeing the production/drilling side of the business as well and I can't recommend it. Sure, the coin is unbelievable as a rig consultant ($1500+/day) but it takes t least a decade of experience to get to that level..ive seen one guy who was younger but his brother, the petroleum engineer in charge of the drilling program, hired him. you'll make crazy cash even getting there--but the lifestyle isn't worth it. As a consultant, you're a contractor who will live on the Wellsite for months without break. As a contractor, labour laws don't apply and you can be forced to work 60 day stints. I've yet to meet one consultant, rig manager, or even driller than hasn't been sucked into spending a huge chunk of their money on booze, drugs, disgusting bush-hookers, and divorces. One of the drillers I met was close to 50--and paid 3 women alimony and two kids child support. He created a world where, although he pulled down 180k a year, he was always broke and rented a one bedroom condo in red deer when he wasn't working.

Petroleum engineers visit the drilling programs to see how the rigs are progressing-- but they are usually in the bush no more than 2 days. They also pull down 200k+.

Thanks for an insight into the drilling side of things but at the same time I find this really disheartening. I am going into drilling to build the life I want not to tear it apart. I hope I can avoid turning out like these guys. I think I should be able to since I am done with drugs, won't ever pay some bush hooker for sex and have a strong mindset and goals.

Sounds like I have my work cut out for me on all sides though- dangerous work, long hours, disgusting camps and an industry that turns you into a burnt out old man. Challenging but then I knew it would be.

I am hoping to make directional driller by three years and consultant by five. On the flip side if all these drillers are drugged up and burnt out then it should not be too hard to compete with them for promotions/jobs. I am a good net worker, a hard worker and when I put my mind to it and focus on something I can learn very fast.

For people who have experience in the industry how hard has it been for you to avoid ending up like the people described above?

I really believe that having the mindsets and goals described on this forum should go a long way in not ending up like this. I plan on using my money somewhat wisely and hopefully being around the million mark by 30.

As for being a Petroleum engineer- is it possible to switch over from drilling? How does it work-hours, job, set-up, career ladder etc.

It sounds even better again and if its possible to switch over in a few years then perfect.

Also has anyone looked into masters in Petroleum based courses. I seen some ads for some in Edmonton but haven't looked into it too much. I plan on being in the oil industry for a good while so if it helps in the long run I would definitely look into it.

Also had a good night out with Vacancier Permanent and DjembaDjemba Saturday. Things got a bit messy haha. Anyone moving out here you are real lucky to have guys like these and Kick and Scotian around to help out. They are all really driven cool guys and will go far in the next few years.

Irishman, I'd say you'll be fine as long as you stay focused on your goals, yes you'll be around some pretty rough characters and some of them will likely be doing drugs and drinking heavily after work (hopefully not while working) but no one is going to force it on you. You didn't travel all this way to get strung out on drugs and the use of them, even after work, increases the likelihood of a work place accident, something you definitely want to avoid.

Take it from me, it does get hard being away from friends, family and civilization for long periods of time. I'm on day 29 now and its Thanksgiving here in Canada, its hard, but I know that in 3 days I'll be getting the fuck out of here for the winter, so its not that bad, just keep your eyes on the prize.

Even if you get out there and realize that you don't like it, there are many other options for you in the oil biz, as you've already seen from some of the nice job offers you turned down for the drilling gig.

I wish I could have been there boozing with you guys this weekend sounds like it was a good time, I'm hoping to be down in Etown by the end of this week.

Yet another example of the type of meat heads I work with on a daily basis, judging by the accents, these guys come from my home province:

Murray!!! Haha

Ya good advice Scotian. Im sure Ill be sweet. Hopefully catch up with ya when you're back here. Keep us posted.

As always Scotian you rock for dropping tons of golden nuggets from your experience in the field. Keep'em coming brother as they are truly invaluable. Looking forward to meeting you this weekend man.

Arrived here on saturday nighjt after an uneventful flight from Toronto. Got to the Hi Edmonton hostel which is not bad and very
conveniently located near bars, restos and
clubs. One of the first things you notice here
is how friendly the locals are. What a contrast to the snotty and cold Torontonians.

After dropping the bags, met Irishman and DjembaDjemba. These guys are top notch guys, very friendly and helpful. Big thumbs up to both of them. Cant thank you guys enough!

We had a fun night drinking and bar/club hoping but the talent in the clubs was weak so nothing happened. But did see some nice girls around so there is potential for some fun here.

And yes it is true whamt othets have said, i have seen more 'help wanted' or "hiring now" in 2 days and on just one street (Whyte Ave) than in a few months in Toronto. And from the chats im having with people here, it is the same in oil/gas industry! Im doing my H2S Alive course tomorrow and i already did the PST (Petroleum Safety Training) online so will be starting to apply for positions right away! Im stocked!!!

Wish I could chime in regarding the 2 year engineering technician degrees, but I don't have much experience with that. Went the four year route, but anyway I agree with the info Ecksie posted above.

Regarding equipment, I've always liked Master Mechanix gloves. They're close fitting, and allow you to work on smaller gear without taking the gloves off. Probably not warm enough for the kind of temperatures you guys are looking at, but worth having a pair.

In the army I used to wear a long sleeve Under Armour turtleneck as an undershirt when doing guard duty on long cold nights. Very comfortable and warm and you can wear extra layers over it. But yeah, we don't get -40 degrees much here in Israel, haha.

(10-08-2012 01:49 PM)scotian Wrote:  Irishman, I'd say you'll be fine as long as you stay focused on your goals, yes you'll be around some pretty rough characters and some of them will likely be doing drugs and drinking heavily after work (hopefully not while working) but no one is going to force it on you. You didn't travel all this way to get strung out on drugs and the use of them, even after work, increases the likelihood of a work place accident, something you definitely want to avoid.

Take it from me, it does get hard being away from friends, family and civilization for long periods of time. I'm on day 29 now and its Thanksgiving here in Canada, its hard, but I know that in 3 days I'll be getting the fuck out of here for the winter, so its not that bad, just keep your eyes on the prize.

Even if you get out there and realize that you don't like it, there are many other options for you in the oil biz, as you've already seen from some of the nice job offers you turned down for the drilling gig.

I wish I could have been there boozing with you guys this weekend sounds like it was a good time, I'm hoping to be down in Etown by the end of this week.

I'm going to emphasize this post. Drugs and drinking after work are very common. Be wary. Drinking heavily daily almost everyone does, and I'd say more than half the guys smoke pot, and at least 10% do dope/crack.

okay could one of you guys (scotian,djemba,irishman etc) explain this for me.

I want to start an apprenticeship in welding in alberta,planning on emigrating early 2013.I plan on taking a pre apprenticeship course there first (as scotian recommended).This is all starting from scratch now.Not an ounce of knowledge regarding welding but i will read a few books before-hand.

Now correct me if im wrong,but on the SAIT.CA site it says that "on the job training is provided by the employer and supervised by a journeyman".

then it says: "
What is an Apprentice?

An apprentice works on the job while he or she learns a trade. An apprentice has an apprenticeship contract with an employer that is registered with the Alberta government. An apprentice attends formal instruction. There are about 46,000 registered apprentices in Alberta at any one time".

From what im gathering here is that I get my ass over to calgary/edmonton walk into a company that specifies in welding and then ask them to sponsor me,pay for my fees etc whilst i learn the trade? am i understanding this correctly or how does it work?

Im slightly confused when it says PRE-apprenticeship training course.Is this a course before the actual apprenticeship course?

(10-08-2012 04:29 PM)alecks Wrote:  okay could one of you guys (scotian,djemba,irishman etc) explain this for me.

I want to start an apprenticeship in welding in alberta,planning on emigrating early 2013.I plan on taking a pre apprenticeship course there first (as scotian recommended).This is all starting from scratch now.Not an ounce of knowledge regarding welding but i will read a few books before-hand.

Now correct me if im wrong,but on the SAIT.CA site it says that "on the job training is provided by the employer and supervised by a journeyman".

then it says: "
What is an Apprentice?

An apprentice works on the job while he or she learns a trade. An apprentice has an apprenticeship contract with an employer that is registered with the Alberta government. An apprentice attends formal instruction. There are about 46,000 registered apprentices in Alberta at any one time".

From what im gathering here is that I get my ass over to calgary/edmonton walk into a company that specifies in welding and then ask them to sponsor me,pay for my fees etc whilst i learn the trade? am i understanding this correctly or how does it work?

Im slightly confused when it says PRE-apprenticeship training course.Is this a course before the actual apprenticeship course?

I am assuming you meant "emigrate", in the sense of attaining permanent residency? It is not that easy to immigrate to Canada, unless you graduated from a university or recognized institution and have at least 1 year work experience in Canada; have the needed skills in the province you want to settle, or have a truckload of money (CAD $500,000+++) to invest in a Canadian company. You might want to revise the date if that's your intention.

I think pre-apprenticeship merely means you get to pay for classes that is somewhat equivalent to your first year apprenticeship. And the classes/on-job training count towards the 1,500 hours to become a full-fledged journeyman. In most cases, it's helps to get a foot in the door and show the employer that you are actually serious about the job.

I am sure Scotian can elaborate more. Meanwhile, check out N.A.I.T. I think their welding course might be more elaborate and gets you more "tickets".

Don't be fooled by a "pre-apprenticeship".

They way it works in ALL provinces is you get hired by someone in the field you want, they indenture you, meaning, register you as an apprentice in that field. Only after that do your work hours count toward your apprenticeship. After 1 year, the employer will send you to either NAIT or SAIT (in Alberta) and then you go to school for 8 weeks. In that 8 weeks its basically testing you see that you have learned what you should have learned as a 1st year apprentice. If you get the passing score, you become a second year. You do this for 4 years and then when you think you are ready to write your licensing exam from the province and become a registered journeyman.

The pre-apprenticeship courses DO NOT count toward your schooling typically. At least in most provinces. If you want to learn more about a specific trade and gets a little ahead and know a little more, by all means take it.

I'm not.

(10-08-2012 07:33 PM)Zeus Wrote:  Don't be fooled by a "pre-apprenticeship".

They way it works in ALL provinces is you get hired by someone in the field you want, they indenture you, meaning, register you as an apprentice in that field. Only after that do your work hours count toward your apprenticeship. After 1 year, the employer will send you to either NAIT or SAIT (in Alberta) and then you go to school for 8 weeks. In that 8 weeks its basically testing you see that you have learned what you should have learned as a 1st year apprentice. If you get the passing score, you become a second year. You do this for 4 years and then when you think you are ready to write your licensing exam from the province and become a registered journeyman.

The pre-apprenticeship courses DO NOT count toward your schooling typically. At least in most provinces. If you want to learn more about a specific trade and gets a little ahead and know a little more, by all means take it.

I'm not.

I stand corrected on the classes being considered "on-job training". I have to say that the description on the website are rather ambiguous.