Post: #26

Anyone optimized this diet to work if you lift in the morning? I can't lift on an empty stomach.

Post: #27

For Ectomophs this method is suicide

Post: #28

(04-15-2012 06:34 AM)Donald Duck Wrote:  Anyone optimized this diet to work if you lift in the morning? I can't lift on an empty stomach.

Try having bulletproof coffee when you wake up prior to lifting. Details here:

http://www.bulletproofexec.com/bulletproof-fasting

Highly recommended.

Post: #29

Hershel Walker swears by the one meal a day thing. I tried it, it def works for getting ripped. But once a lot of people were saying I was getting skiny I stopped it. I will still fast once in a while but not like I was. I'm very hungover right now excuse my speech.

Post: #30

I'm a mesomorph (6'4, 225 right now), and i find combining 16/8 intermittent fasting and low carb the fastest and easiest way to lose weight.

(04-15-2012 06:34 AM)Donald Duck Wrote:  Anyone optimized this diet to work if you lift in the morning? I can't lift on an empty stomach.

sure you can. there's even some evidence to suggest that fasted training is a better option. Leangains suggests a workaround (some amino if i remember correctly), though.

Post: #31

I made this plan, is it any good? It's 16/8.

Eat medium sized breakfast at 10 AM
Lift at 11 AM.

Eat biggest meal at 2 PM

Eat medium meal at 6 PM

Fast for 16 hours until 10 AM next day

Post: #32

DonaldDuck I do the same thing as you timing wise, I know the fasted training is better, but I'm much more into working out mid day. or at least after I'vebeen up for a few hours and have had something to eat.

Post: #33

(04-16-2012 10:43 AM)WesternCancer Wrote:  DonaldDuck I do the same thing as you timing wise, I know the fasted training is better, but I'm much more into working out mid day. or at least after I'vebeen up for a few hours and have had something to eat.

Yeah, but I read you really need to lift on an empty stomach, but I tried it a few times and I can't do it. I am not gonna waste my money on BCAA's either. But what's the science behind lifting on an empty stomach exaclty? Isn't it all about the 16/8 thing?

Post: #34

You can just drink a whey protein shake made with water, contains a bunch of BCAAs.
I can't remember the reasoning for the fasted training, but i think it says in the FAQ section.

Post: #35

I think fasted training is more for mesomorphs and endomorphs.
I'm mostly an ectomorph, I can't lift shit on an empty stomach.

Post: #36

Walnuts there's no reason why you shouldnt be able to lift on an empty stomach. It's probably psychological. Assuming you have glycogen stored in your muscles from eating enough at previous meals then you should have all the energy you need in the gym.

Post: #37

I realised that training on an empty stomach is no killer when I was forced to move my workout to the mornings for a while. I could not and hour before I worked out if I had to train at 5:30AM. So I would go in on an empty stomach.

8+ years or so in the gym at that time, and I saw strength increases on most lifts like most people are reporting now with fasted state training. That was while I was training to up endurance as rugby season was approaching and I needed to condition.

Fasting seems to change the way body processes food to a degree, but also the way it uses insulin. Its an interesting approach and one that is yielding clear results for people of all body types and goals.

As I said, the fitness industry has sold a lot of crap over the years trying to push product our way, and its turning out that meal frequency may have been one of them. Given what we are seeing, periods of daily fasting may actually be beneficial for people and better for overall health. The jury is out, but shutting this approach down because its at odds with whats preached on Testosterone Nation is a bit retarded.

Post: #38

My mini journal on starting IF:

I've just started a loose IF program to try and ramp up my metabolosm. I would say I am sorta of a ecto when my body is a prime form but it quickly can taper off and become normal and complacent. I tried the "little meals" thing and was not happy since I was still stuffing my face at akward times per day. Then the no carb thing but I need energy as my body burns through shit quick. Now this IF shit.... yes. Its been about 5 days and my body is still adjusting but my muscles are pulsating like my dick. I had one of the best workouts of my life on day 3 after my meal time frame (12-8) where I ate a ton of lean ground meat and whole wheat pasta. Jesus Christ never had so much energy in the gym in a long time.. I was so wierd after I couldn't sleep.

So after taking a day break to try and re-gain sleep I tried to lift yesturday morning on a empty stomach prior to the my meal frame (10am). It did not go to well, I had energy but I think what did me in was taking my pre-workout supps before hand. My body sucked them up like nothing and I probably got way to harsh of a hit. Since that did not work well for me I am going to try it once more next week but for now stick to mid-day or night training after the meal frame.

My first meal is always shit. I am still buzzing around looking for food near 12pm so when the clock hits i'll cram anything thats has protein into me. Yesterday after to the gym I was going to have steak and eggs but was so amped up I downed 3 hot dogs instead (no bun) then demolished a 3 oz. steak, half a sweet potato, and 6 eggs. But the way I see it. FUCK IT. I am trying to get in 1800 calories and if you keep it clean its still a good amuont of food to take in in only 8 hours.

So far so good. My buddy has been on this shit a month now he is even more lean then me but he is on mega beast mode with energy too.

Post: #39

I think that a skinny fat ectomorph could try this for a month or something. You just have to do some Hodge-twin type post jump-rope routine.

I also heard that intermittent fasting (either this routine or the one I'm posting below) greatly increases testosterone and HGH production, roughly 3-4 fold increase.

According to this IF book I'm reading, you can keep your regular diet, and then once or twice a week go on a 24 hour fast, it increases hormone production because it gives your liver time to process your bodily fats and cholesterols into testosterone and HGH. It is also suggested that regular scheduled fasting prevents diabetes.

If you're carrying a few extra pounds of body fat, you can try IF and not change your workout routine and burn tons of fat. If you stop lifting you will burn muscle.

A regular week would look like this

Monday: Wake up, go to work, fast all day, eat at 5PM (one 24 hour cycle of fasting)
Tuesday: Eat
Wednesday: Eat
Thursday: Fast after 5PM
Friday: Wake up, go to work, fast all day, eat at 5PM (second 24 hour fast cycle)
Saturday: Eat
Sunday: Eat during the day, have nothing after 5PM

Our caveman ancestors supposedly did this because hunting and gathering wasn't a guarantee.

Post: #40

Hades,

You're correct. HGH production is at its most when you sleep and especially right before you wake up. If you wake up and eat, you halt production of HGH right away. Your pancreas kicks in and insulin is secreted. Insulin is the fat hormone. It puts fat in your cells and does not let it out. This is why Paleo is so effective. Your insulin is very low in your blood, thus allowing the cells to open and release their energy.

Have any of the 'Bro's' bothered to look up what HGH does to your body?

HGH is responsible for your body’s youthful appearance and consequently, when HGH levels sink below a certain point, you start to experience the unmistakable effects of old age…

"Hair changes color, thins, and then falls out…
Your minds begin to slow, and recalling memories becomes more difficult.
Your sex drive diminishes, and of course,
Your precious skin wrinkles and loses its youthful elasticity."

But by doing IF and lifting heavy weights it:

Burns fat
Builds muscle
reduces inflammation
reduces cholesterol profile
Improves sexual performance

Human growth hormones provide a powerful boost to your immune system, in turn helping to ward off infections
HGH Improves Skin Elasticity
Sex Drive gets Amped

and so much more.

So... IF does not hurt you. It does the exact opposite. FOr all body types. including extomorphs

Leangains has been posted so many times, I encourage you to read it BEFORE you say protein gets stored as fat during an IF.

Also, Brad Pilon has his take called EAT STOP EAT.

And you can do this for the rest of your life and your body, mind and dick will thank you for it.

Good day.

Post: #41

This is actually very interesting. So basically I can increase HGH by fasting once a month or something like that?

Post: #42

Westcoast:

Twice a week is for beginners.

I do it everyday. Stop eating at around 8 or 9 and don't eat until 1pm the next. Minimum or however my schedule allows. Today I ate at 2pm

yesterday I ate at 4:30.

I still have my muscles, but am lean. I have tons of energy.

Post: #43

Hmm so how long is "fasting" like 12 hours? 16? Guess I am looking for more specifics.

You prob already know what my schedule is like.

Post: #44

(07-05-2012 02:34 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  Hmm so how long is "fasting" like 12 hours? 16? Guess I am looking for more specifics.

You prob already know what my schedule is like.

A 16 hour fast is when you start to see the benefits. You can schedule this however you like.

I like 18 hours.

Once or twice a week I'll do a 24hr fast. Really just if my schedule is shit and waiting is a better option.

Post: #45

(07-05-2012 02:34 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  Hmm so how long is "fasting" like 12 hours? 16? Guess I am looking for more specifics.

You prob already know what my schedule is like.

Anywhere from 12-18 hours is good. Here's a really short guide to the Lean Gains way of intermittent fasting (16 hours fast, 8 hours feed):

http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

----------------------------------

I've never really done it consistently enough to give a good testimonial. But for the short stretches that I did, I got away with eating way less in terms of total caloric intake, while maintaining strength.

I didn't do it for long so take that with a grain of salt, but similar results have been reported.

Post: #46

Thanks for the rep/agreement Zeus. IF really is an exciting thing to think about, and it makes sense when you think about it. Fatasses that continually munch on micro meals look and act like overfed pigs, but the sleek and muscular jungle cat goes from feast to famine on a daily basis. I would rather be the panther.

I am going to incorporate regular IF into my schedule if it works for me. If I can naturally increase HGH and testosterone to a huge degree, why not?

Post: #47

Does cardio reduce HGH and testosterone? I seem recall reading some talk about that.

Post: #48

(07-05-2012 03:38 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  Does cardio reduce HGH and testosterone? I seem recall reading some talk about that.

High intensity fast. Short duration exercise like sprinting supercharges it. Slow, long distance like running not so much.

Look at an Olympic sprinter and then compare to a marathoner. Huge difference.

Think soccer player. Track events. Football. Hockey. Fast, intense, anaerobic.

Post: #49

But, I must say.

Nothing beats putting a fucking bar on your back, full of plates, going down until your ass
Touches your heels and then almost shitting yourself trying to get back up

Repeat

Post: #50

My only issue is that in that 8hr window at first I am a mad man whom is looking for food but by 4pm I am not really that hungry and just will have a light supper. I am still low key worried about not getting enough food in me to keep my muscle mass. Anybody have any tips on this?

I do have Muslim homies that have family whom are good friends they are from Philly and do the 3 day fast thing once or twice a month. They say it helps cleanse the body of radicals and increase energy and efficiency of the body. These kats grew up in and around the NOI lifestyle and I guess the fasting was common among its members. I started IF with eventually being able to reach this goal one my body adapts. I'll start off with one day and chip away one more each time after.

(07-05-2012 03:31 PM)Hades Wrote:  Thanks for the rep/agreement Zeus. IF really is an exciting thing to think about, and it makes sense when you think about it. Fatasses that continually munch on micro meals look and act like overfed pigs, but the sleek and muscular jungle cat goes from feast to famine on a daily basis. I would rather be the panther.

I am going to incorporate regular IF into my schedule if it works for me. If I can naturally increase HGH and testosterone to a huge degree, why not?

Very much true. This is why I don't believe in the whole "Keto" lifestyle as humans are not designed to eat a ton of heavy and harsh foods that require energy to intake and to break down.

*A lion or predator expends a ton of energy to secure its prey and will maybe it once or twice a week.

*A fat ass cow munches on grass all day long.

A human's ideal diet is to eat rich, nutrient dense and clean foods sparingly during the day in a small window. Being more efficient with your energy means your body can do more things like think and invent stuff, create art, or whatever else are ancestors did. Eating tons a food means your body has to work harder and longer to break things down. If your eating super clean it won't be all that bad but over time the wear and tear will show.

A classic car that is maintained with few millage and clicks will still a run.

A 92 Sedan that was driven every day to work back and forth is sitting in a scrap yard.

We should think of a bodies as the same. You do less with more.

It makes perfect sense because even a fat slob burns calories during the day. Just from thinking (your brain), and eating (your stomach) you will burn 1000K calories per day. My friend has a theory that obesity is prevalent in today's western cultures because we don't use are minds enough like back in the day. We are to needy on technology and thus don't burn up the extra calories that we needed. The flip of this is that if your stomach is used less it will not require as many calories to burn your calories...make sense?

The extra calories that your body need to burn of those extra meals does not count towards your deficit which means you can still take in less and still grow and become strong.