Post: #1

I watched this recently for what must be in the triple digits at this stage. Easily one of the most profound movies ever made.

A few fun fan theories revolving around the movie that make a lot of sense:

Phil never woke up on 3rd February because he died either by slipping and hitting his head in the tub or in his sleep
Phil is trapped in Purgatory
Ned Ryerson is Satan
Rita is an angel sent to guide Phil into heaven

What I took away from the movie most recently is that what you put out into the universe is what comes back.

Phil starts out as grouchy, self centred, aloof, selfish, unhappy and sarcastic, treating people around him with disdain.

Phil ends up being caring, giving, selfless, humble, happy and popular, treating people around him with respect.

Phils love interest Rita could not be tricked into bed, no matter how much game Phil ran on her he always encountered LMR resulting in a number of hilarious slap scenes.

What eventually won Rita over was Phil becoming an interesting and deep character with many hidden talents. Phil didnt pursue Rita, she pursued him.

My conclusion is that to get a high quality woman you cannot pursue her, you cannot game her, she must pursue you. By the end of the movie Phil had to do nothing except be himself, all be it his true/improved self, to game Rita and win her over.

His new outlook in life gave him status and popularity, he became the guy everybody seems/wants to know. That happens to be my own personal shtick after a few years of being in the game so I can relate to that ending.

I'm a believer in God though Im not religious. I believe in fate, that whats for you wont pass you and that we all have a set path. I have forgotten that at times, I particularly notice this when I go out with the object to score a ONS. I can run the best game, look great etc but it normally doesn't happen on these nights, when I am goal oriented instead of enjoying the moment/night.

When I am just out having a good time I swear the girls pick up on that vibe and it just happens for me without having to try all that much, they just want it and pursue me. Its the nights I don't care about scoring and may not be looking my best that I usually do, I dont have a set formula or explanation as to why, no tricks involved.

Anyway be interested to hear your thoughts on the movie, I too dislike those ROK articles titled "what x taught me about game" but I will give this movie a pass as its messages are key to understanding game and life imo.

Post: #2

I've never seen this movie, if you can believe it. Hell until last year, I'd never seen Back to the Future either. Need to get on this.

Post: #3

(04-14-2017 10:38 AM)Menace Wrote:  I've never seen this movie, if you can believe it. Hell until last year, I'd never seen Back to the Future either. Need to get on this.

I envy you

Post: #4

So true. As we work of self improvement and self awareness in life, we become better men for OURSELVES. We increase our value as men. It is perfectly normal that girls see that and are attracted.

Post: #5

I think Groundhog day is a prime example of what happens when we waste time. The guy did nothing essentially, with his life and the first portion of the film. The minute he stopped wasting his time and putting effort out he became the man he wanted to be. He did the heavy lifting. He sat through the boring lessons to learn stuff. He learned about the people that had been in front of him everyday, that he'd never given a second thought. It was cool.

He should have been putting in the work his whole life.

Post: #6

I found this movie rather mediocre - ok to watch if there is nothing better to do, but when in a self conscious man's life there is a moment when there is nothing better to do?

As for the message this movie contains, I find there is both good and bad depending on how you look it:

Good:

In one day you can achieve a lot, you can turn your life around if you give it your fullest, there are lot's of possibilities passing you each day - spot them and use them! Also - each person you treat with respect can be an asset.


Bad:

Getting a woman is hard and as a man you need an effort on the level of supernatural abilities (in this case ability to rewind time) to be worthy of love from a woman.

Post: #7

(04-14-2017 11:10 AM)Mage Wrote:  I found this movie rather mediocre - ok to watch if there is nothing better to do, but when in a self conscious man's life there is a moment when there is nothing better to do?

As for the message this movie contains, I find there is both good and bad depending on how you look it:

Good:

In one day you can achieve a lot, you can turn your life around if you give it your fullest, there are lot's of possibilities passing you each day - spot them and use them! Also - each person you treat with respect can be an asset.


Bad:

Getting a woman is hard and as a man you need an effort on the level of supernatural abilities (in this case ability to rewind time) to be worthy of love from a woman.

Not really, because he gets lots of women, just not that one.

I think if you wanted to go all mushy about it, the moral would be something like be honest, be good, don't be fake in love or something like that.

I liked it, Hollywood used to make good movies. Nothing like this gets made anymore.

Post: #8

It's a fun movie. If you've ever been to Punxsutawney, it really can be described as purgatory. If you hang out long enough at Sheetz, a high school reunion will occur.

Sad lot those middle of nowhere Pennsylvania towns are.

Post: #9

They actually filmed the movie in a small town called Woodstock, IL. I passed through there once, and you can walk all around in that town square you see in the movie. Looks a bit different now but still the same place.

Post: #10

The original script made clear he stayed in the loop for 10,000 years. Harold Ramos decided that revelation made the movie more depressing than funny so it was edited out.


http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/f...scaped/amp

Post: #11

Here is an interpretation. We all know that when you write something, someone else can have an interpretation of the work itself that makes more sense than what you the writer, intended. They are looking only at the work, what is in from of them, and are not hampered in their understanding by the intentions of the author.

A possible reason for this is that the real story is being written by your unconscious mind and as a result there are themes and an organization to whatever you write that you are not consciously aware of.

Now, if you are willing to get spiritual about it, and I am for the sake of discussion, you could say that because God controls your unconscious mind, he can use it for whatever he wants, and sometimes he wants to teach spiritual truths to the world indirectly, in the themes of movies, to prepare us for future realities without explicitly doing so, so that when they happen to us later, we are already familiar, although vicariously as an audience member, with the basic outlines of what will happen.

Yeah, ok, I know I had to lay a lot of speculative groundwork for this theory, but it is just for the fun of it, so this is the theory:

Groundhog Day is a foreshadowing of heaven, for all the people who will end up there. The most important feature of this movie is that it is a study of what a person would do if they had eternity to do it.

Imagine dying, finding yourself in heaven, and being told, look, welcome here, you passed the test, you can do whatever you want, and have forever to do it.

Think how unnerving that would be, having spent your whole life with the specter of death hanging over you, suddenly having literally all the time in the world to live your life, and also the freedom to do whatever you wanted.

At first, you would test the limits of that freedom, doing things you know are wrong, but have always wanted to do, because you can't really believe that you are really free to do whatever you want. Once you see that there will be no giant hand from the sky squashing you for messing around, you will be left only with how it makes you feel to misbehave, and you find, that part of the fun of doing bad things was knowing you aren't supposed to do them, that little rush of power that accompanies doing the opposite what someone tells you to do.

At the same time that you are realizing you are truly free, you are also letting it sink in that you have eternity to accomplish whatever it is that you want to accomplish. Imagine how differently you would act. You might not have a list of daily chores, and five year plan, and ten year plan, might not have it at all.

You might be happy accomplishing just one thing a day. You might also find that chasing your desires all around is actually tedious, and feels like you are living the same day over and over, and soon you begin to rethink everything.

And the longer you stay, the more your new reality sinks in, that you can do whatever you want, you have forever to do it, and once you learn that you have no interest, intrinsically, not really, for yourself alone, in following the whims of your youth.

So what the hell do you do?

Maybe that is why people think heaven is boring.

It is the new reality that makes your existence tedious. All the things you used to lust after now seem pointless, and your whole worldview gets shaken up. You have to look deep inside yourself, ask yourself, what the hell do I do now? It's like the same day over and over. Boring.

So, out of basically desperation, you start doing positive things, taking notice of other people, who they are, what makes them tick, and how you can help them, and little by little, after time, this becomes important to you. As well as learning new skills, just learning basically, about people and about art and life.

So that's what it might be about. A little preview of heaven, sent to you by God, through the minds of the writers, directors, and actors, in the same way that he wrote the bible through the pens of the prophets. And that is the reason why this confection of a movie feels so deep, and feels so familiar, because there is something in yourself that longs for heaven and knows you belong there, and watching this movie reignites that part of your soul.

So, to wrap up a loose end, why then, does he goes back to living a normal life right after he learns all his lessons? That's just because God doesn't want to give the whole game away.

Probably not true, but it would be pretty amazing if it was.

Post: #12

I love this movie.

Whenever someone asks me what college degree I got I say " Believe it or not, I studied nineteenth century French poetry." I've even used that line on this forum, but no one caught it.

I also regularly toast to" World Peace."

Aloha!

Post: #13

Kona Wrote:"Believe it or not, I studied nineteenth century French poetry."

What a waste of time! I mean, for someone else that would be an incredible waste of time. It's so bold of you to choose that. It's incredible; you must have been a very very strong person.

Post: #14

I love this movie, and this is a great thread with some interesting interpretations.

For me the take-home is that immortality is nothing to desire - he quickly tires of it, and doing the things that only immortals can do.

Instead he quickly sets out to escape his immortality, and learns what life is really all about - using the GIFT of mortality to do good things, and live to your true values.

Post: #15

(04-14-2017 06:34 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  Here is an interpretation. We all know that when you write something, someone else can have an interpretation of the work itself that makes more sense than what you the writer, intended. They are looking only at the work, what is in from of them, and are not hampered in their understanding by the intentions of the author.

A possible reason for this is that the real story is being written by your unconscious mind and as a result there are themes and an organization to whatever you write that you are not consciously aware of.

Now, if you are willing to get spiritual about it, and I am for the sake of discussion, you could say that because God controls your unconscious mind, he can use it for whatever he wants, and sometimes he wants to teach spiritual truths to the world indirectly, in the themes of movies, to prepare us for future realities without explicitly doing so, so that when they happen to us later, we are already familiar, although vicariously as an audience member, with the basic outlines of what will happen.

Yeah, ok, I know I had to lay a lot of speculative groundwork for this theory, but it is just for the fun of it, so this is the theory:

Groundhog Day is a foreshadowing of heaven, for all the people who will end up there. The most important feature of this movie is that it is a study of what a person would do if they had eternity to do it.

Imagine dying, finding yourself in heaven, and being told, look, welcome here, you passed the test, you can do whatever you want, and have forever to do it.

Think how unnerving that would be, having spent your whole life with the specter of death hanging over you, suddenly having literally all the time in the world to live your life, and also the freedom to do whatever you wanted.

At first, you would test the limits of that freedom, doing things you know are wrong, but have always wanted to do, because you can't really believe that you are really free to do whatever you want. Once you see that there will be no giant hand from the sky squashing you for messing around, you will be left only with how it makes you feel to misbehave, and you find, that part of the fun of doing bad things was knowing you aren't supposed to do them, that little rush of power that accompanies doing the opposite what someone tells you to do.

At the same time that you are realizing you are truly free, you are also letting it sink in that you have eternity to accomplish whatever it is that you want to accomplish. Imagine how differently you would act. You might not have a list of daily chores, and five year plan, and ten year plan, might not have it at all.

You might be happy accomplishing just one thing a day. You might also find that chasing your desires all around is actually tedious, and feels like you are living the same day over and over, and soon you begin to rethink everything.

And the longer you stay, the more your new reality sinks in, that you can do whatever you want, you have forever to do it, and once you learn that you have no interest, intrinsically, not really, for yourself alone, in following the whims of your youth.

So what the hell do you do?

Maybe that is why people think heaven is boring.

It is the new reality that makes your existence tedious. All the things you used to lust after now seem pointless, and your whole worldview gets shaken up. You have to look deep inside yourself, ask yourself, what the hell do I do now? It's like the same day over and over. Boring.

So, out of basically desperation, you start doing positive things, taking notice of other people, who they are, what makes them tick, and how you can help them, and little by little, after time, this becomes important to you. As well as learning new skills, just learning basically, about people and about art and life.

So that's what it might be about. A little preview of heaven, sent to you by God, through the minds of the writers, directors, and actors, in the same way that he wrote the bible through the pens of the prophets. And that is the reason why this confection of a movie feels so deep, and feels so familiar, because there is something in yourself that longs for heaven and knows you belong there, and watching this movie reignites that part of your soul.

So, to wrap up a loose end, why then, does he goes back to living a normal life right after he learns all his lessons? That's just because God doesn't want to give the whole game away.

Probably not true, but it would be pretty amazing if it was.

Groundhog Day strikes me essentially as being about being freed from the mire of the self.

If I remember the rough sequence of events correctly, Phil first tries excess and self-destruction and continual attempts at suicide. When these don't work, it's Andy who suggests he try self-improvement. Thus his learning French poetry, ice sculpture, and the piano.

But that's not the end of the journey, because as you say there's still nothing intrinsic going on as such. It's only when Phil starts to recognise there are other people around and starts to do good for them that he gets on the right path, that Andy warms to him (that being the film's signal to us that he's actually making some progress on the path of enlightenment).

But even then, he's still not free: wisely, the film doesn't allow him to change all events, the homeless man still dies no matter what Phil does to try and save him. I think this is probably the most important lesson the film has to offer in the world of right now, today. I guarantee a cheap, exploitative remake of Groundhog Day coming out tomorrow would have a scene in which the homeless guy finally lives through the night thanks to Phil's efforts.

Why would that matter? Because of the darkest personality trait of all, the one that can survive in the Pope and the pauper alike: narcissism, the idea that people don't have their own existences independent of you, that they are extras in your personal story. Phil's weary assertion of that very idea, that he's a god, is the exposition of that persistent, pernicious flaw in him.

Phil being unable, consistently, to save the homeless guy is his object lesson and immunisation against narcissism: people die because they have lives independent of ours, and there's nothing we can do about it, no matter how hard we try, no matter how hard we love them, no matter how much rage we project against them, we are only extras in their stories. They have an existence of their own as real, as painful, as joyful, and sorrowful as our own.

This realisation is a key step up and out of Phil's enslavement to himself. And it's also fundamental to the Golden Rule and at the heart of most religions practiced thoughtfully, which is why so many religions claim Groundhog Day as exemplifying their principles.

But then the narcissism of the West is blinding. Consider the sad comedy in this observation from the late Harold Ramis about his film:

Quote:It always seemed ironic to me that it didn’t lead people to recognize the commonality of all their points of view, but rather, "This must be about us and only us."

Harold Ramis, as quoted in "And If He Sees His Shadow…" in Shambhala Sun (July 2009)


God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #16

Groundhog Day is actually quite spiritual.

The reason why it connects with many people just as the first Matrix movie is more on a deep level.

It shows you the reality of life itself - we as Soul get reincarnated again and again just as Phil does, we go through all kinds of experiences, all kinds of crap, selfishness and craziness. Then in the end we learn to become better, more refined, truly spiritual beings. In the movie the cycle is broken when Phil almost stops caring about what happens to him, just focuses on giving love thus being of course loved in return. The movie is a microcosm of the big game that we all play in life.

Post: #17

I think one of the interesting points of the movie is that it's premised around the idea that Phil is essentially a good guy.

I don't want to take the thread to a dark place, but it's reasonable to surmise that if he ever simply got jack of the whole scenario and went on a raping or killing spree then he would forever be compromised and could never redeem himself, even though nobody would remember it the next day.

The only person he ever kills is himself (unless the groundhog counts).

Post: #18

Interesting point to him being a good guy. Knowing eveyday I could wake up with zero consequence, that'd be dangeorous for me. The potential for bangs, the drugs, the drinking etc. would have been too tempting. I may have been eternally stuck in that loop or whatever power/entity would have given up on me before I learned whatever lesson what necessary to escape the loop.

Now the argument for boredom could be made, but I'd have been essentially immortal and with innumerable options in terms of possible encounters. So I don't think that would happen. Interesting conversation...

Post: #19

+1 to debeguiled and Paracelsus for profound contributions to this thread.

Post: #20

(04-15-2017 05:29 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  I think one of the interesting points of the movie is that it's premised around the idea that Phil is essentially a good guy.

I don't want to take the thread to a dark place, but it's reasonable to surmise that if he ever simply got jack of the whole scenario and went on a raping or killing spree then he would forever be compromised and could never redeem himself, even though nobody would remember it the next day.

The only person he ever kills is himself (unless the groundhog counts).

A thought on this: IIRC, in one scene Rita identifies Phil's dead body in the morgue. It's not clear what time that event takes place but it's reasonable to assume it happens the next day in that particular universe, i.e. that the particular universe in which Rita identifies Phil's body has a continuing existence beyond Phil being in it. This would suggest to me the horror movie version of the story: Groundhog Day is not repeating for anyone except Phil. Or rather, Phil is not actually repeating the same universe each time. Instead, Phil is shifting from one alternate timeline to the next, wreaking lasting havoc and horror in each parallel and continuing universe he passes through on Groundhog Day before blinking out to the next one at 6:00 a.m. the next morning.

But then don't narcissists do the same thing - being utterly oblivious to the idea that other people have continuing lives, go on to treat the world as their personal drama and do a shitload of damage to other people as they pass through it?

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #21

Cheers for the replies, nice to get other takes on it. The parallel universes is a good point in relation to narcissism, its very true that people in a narcissist world view are just extras to their main story which is possibly why we are focused on Phil for the entirety of the movie.

Does anyone attribute any symbolism to the clock striking 6 everyday?

Post: #22

(04-15-2017 12:43 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  But even then, he's still not free: wisely, the film doesn't allow him to change all events, the homeless man still dies no matter what Phil does to try and save him. I think this is probably the most important lesson the film has to offer in the world of right now, today. I guarantee a cheap, exploitative remake of Groundhog Day coming out tomorrow would have a scene in which the homeless guy finally lives through the night thanks to Phil's efforts.

Why would that matter? Because of the darkest personality trait of all, the one that can survive in the Pope and the pauper alike: narcissism, the idea that people don't have their own existences independent of you, that they are extras in your personal story. Phil's weary assertion of that very idea, that he's a god, is the exposition of that persistent, pernicious flaw in him.

Phil being unable, consistently, to save the homeless guy is his object lesson and immunisation against narcissism: people die because they have lives independent of ours, and there's nothing we can do about it, no matter how hard we try, no matter how hard we love them, no matter how much rage we project against them, we are only extras in their stories. They have an existence of their own as real, as painful, as joyful, and sorrowful as our own.

This realisation is a key step up and out of Phil's enslavement to himself. And it's also fundamental to the Golden Rule and at the heart of most religions practiced thoughtfully, which is why so many religions claim Groundhog Day as exemplifying their principles.

But then the narcissism of the West is blinding. Consider the sad comedy in this observation from the late Harold Ramis about his film:

Quote:It always seemed ironic to me that it didn’t lead people to recognize the commonality of all their points of view, but rather, "This must be about us and only us."

Harold Ramis, as quoted in "And If He Sees His Shadow…" in Shambhala Sun (July 2009)


Fucking hell bro, with insights like that, you could start a cult. And of course there would be no danger of narcissism in that scenario.

Post: #23

Thanks Paracelsus for your thoughts, enjoyed that. Went to rep but already done ages ago

Post: #24

(04-15-2017 05:29 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  I think one of the interesting points of the movie is that it's premised around the idea that Phil is essentially a good guy.

I don't want to take the thread to a dark place, but it's reasonable to surmise that if he ever simply got jack of the whole scenario and went on a raping or killing spree then he would forever be compromised and could never redeem himself, even though nobody would remember it the next day.

The only person he ever kills is himself (unless the groundhog counts).

I've seen the movie easily 15 times and never thought of that. He's a bitter, jaded prick who's angry at the world, but clearly is only that way because he's had a rough time in life - not because he's an evil person when the chips are down.

The scene where Phil talks to Rita where she's asleep is one of my favorite monologues in any film, easily, and it manages to not be saccharine. He tells her he loves her and wants her as a partner, but it's far more than that. When he saw her for the first time, he was genuinely humbled and awed. He sees the woman of his dreams in front of him, and is willing to do whatever the hell it takes to make himself the prize.

When he finally lands her in the end, she's the one who throws herself at HIM. He's finally become the best version of himself, and he's got plenty of happy decades waiting in front of him.

(Oh, and a response to the post above - I remember that Harold Ramis said in an interview that Phil was caught in the loop for 10 years, but he never spelled it out, he left it up to the audience to fill the blanks in. I've never heard 10,000 years. That many times isn't funny.)

Post: #25

I haven't watched it in a long time, but this is making me want to watch it again.

Part of the reason for its appeal is that it makes us ask the question: What would you do if you were stuck living the same day over and over again? I would certainly use that to improve myself.

In fact, Phil grows and lives a lot, even though time stands still for him. It would certainly be an interesting thing to live through.

Thanks for the thread.









This video counts that Phil spends 12,395 days in the film.