Post: #126

(01-24-2016 09:48 PM)Cobra Wrote:  When I used to interview people in the Big 4, the interviews were always behavioral anyways. Sure there was a 3.5 GPA "filter" but I'm pretty sure that no one at the interview roundtables pushed a high GPA person that was devoid of personality or some kind of extra curricular (sports, frat, something else meaningful).

The issue is that there are definitely those with lower GPAs that would do these firms well because of stuff they have done outside of the classroom.

Exactly, I'm sure I will get their one way or another though. The firm I'm interning with now has had employee who have left recently for the big 4, so I'm not fucked up about it for now. I just need to be persistent.

Post: #127

I'm seeking some accounting career advice myself now. I came to accounting after getting a bachelors in marketing. I'm currently working as a payroll accountant for a company of 250 or so. Payroll is my main job function, but I'm involved in AR, a bit of AP, and working with the controller during month end in a way that even our senior accountant isn't. I've been doing this work for 3 years (with two years of similar work prior to my current job), and due to some upheaval in the office, I'm starting to consider the job hunt again. The only place for me to move up to where I'm at is to the senior accountant position, but the person there, despite seemingly being disengaged, doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

So what could I expect if I were to go look for a senior accountant type job outside of my current company? My education, as I said, isn't accounting. I took my required accounting course around the time Enron collapsed. Do employers in accounting want to see that that accounting degree to go with the experience? Do I even have enough experience? Right now, I see controller as the career of choice, given my appreciation of the black-and-white nature of accounting. Would going back for and MBA or trying to pass parts, if not all, of the cpa be a good move?

Post: #128

^For you specifically, a CPA/masters in accounting would be a great move. You can complete a masters in a year if you go full time. It will solidify the experiences you already have. Even if you go part time and take longer, its reflection on your resume as an "in progress" action can even trigger employers to put you on the top of the list given your experience.

As far as getting a senior accountant job without an accounting degree or CPA, it will be tough. Can you tell me what exactly you did with the controller for month end close? That will help me guide you better as to how you can present yourself to potential employers without a degree or CPA.

Post: #129

Cobra,
For month end, my biggest tasks are accruals of invoices that we've received by that have not been approved yet (still need to accurately reflect expenses in the months they occurred), reconciling payroll related ledger accounts and bills (medical, dental, etc), and allocation of production costs as cost of goods sold. I also act as sort of a sweeper for the GL, looking for items that have been misclassified, or accruals that have been missed. I have a better handle on financial statements than our current senior accountant, and my boss, the controller, has told me that on several occasions.

In regards to getting an MBA, my biggest hesitation is the cost. Not just the cash, but the time, as I have several little ones at home. How good would online MBA programs look?

Post: #130

(02-07-2016 04:15 AM)NilNisiOptimum Wrote:  I'm seeking some accounting career advice myself now. I came to accounting after getting a bachelors in marketing.

So what could I expect if I were to go look for a senior accountant type job outside of my current company? My education, as I said, isn't accounting. I took my required accounting course around the time Enron collapsed. Do employers in accounting want to see that that accounting degree to go with the experience? Do I even have enough experience? Right now, I see controller as the career of choice, given my appreciation of the black-and-white nature of accounting. Would going back for and MBA or trying to pass parts, if not all, of the cpa be a good move?

I use to be a CPA, and work in Big 4 accounting/consulting.

Yes, it is highly recommend you have a BS or Master in Accounting, if you wish to be a Controller. Why, because both degrees allow you to get a CPA.

The CPA will determine your ability to get high paying jobs. At the end of the day, the CPA is a state government issued license, which means it is control and regulated to help you, create a union position. The master degree will help you, but the CPA is expected and highly desire for Controller work. A CPA will guarantee you an interview for a controller position.

In addition, your career in payroll is a dead end job. The only way out and to move up, is to get a Master's in Accounting. Do not get an MBA. An MBA is for people who are looking to work in corporate management. MBA is also for people who already have a B.S. in accounting. Since you don't have one I recommend a Master's in Accounting. A master's in accounting is for those who are non business majors.

First of all, high paying Accounting jobs are based off of pedigree and is highly prejudice of shitty online degrees. The only online degree that is respected is a Master in Accounting from Penn State and Syracuse, or other programs that have strong brick mortar programs.

I believe that Penn State and Syracuse will not divulge information that your degree was online, and will treat the degree as if you were in town.

Also do not tell any employer that your degree is online. That will hurt you.

Post: #131

(02-07-2016 12:54 PM)NilNisiOptimum Wrote:  Cobra,
For month end, my biggest tasks are accruals of invoices that we've received by that have not been approved yet (still need to accurately reflect expenses in the months they occurred), reconciling payroll related ledger accounts and bills (medical, dental, etc), and allocation of production costs as cost of goods sold. I also act as sort of a sweeper for the GL, looking for items that have been misclassified, or accruals that have been missed. I have a better handle on financial statements than our current senior accountant, and my boss, the controller, has told me that on several occasions.

In regards to getting an MBA, my biggest hesitation is the cost. Not just the cash, but the time, as I have several little ones at home. How good would online MBA programs look?

What the other poster said. Caveat that MBAs do work with kids if you can finance them, but they're generally not good for getting promoted or even for accounting in general.

If you, say, wanted to move into a related field like banking, a more corporate finance oriented role, or transaction advisory an MBA would be a great way to do that. Since you want a senior accountant job it would be a terrible idea. You would also be wasting your time with an online degree. Much morseo than other degrees, online MBAs are a waste of time with the possible exception of the top 3 rated ones. For example, I once ran into a guy who an online degree from Indiana, the #1 ranked distance program, who worked as a trader at a top bank.

Evening, in person masters programs are more beneficial since they're generally designed for people who need additional credentials to advance.

Post: #132

Hey Cobra, I'm thinking about becoming an enrolled agent to land a solid tax internship just before I graduate. Is it worth it to become an enrolled agent or is a waste of time/money.the consensus on Reddit is that it costs about $500 in all and about 150 hours of studying.

Post: #133

Bump, great thread.

I would like to ask fellow accountants how is the market for foreigners. I'm really raw at accounting, I'm in the middle of the second semester. But I like to plan things, as this metod seem to work better (usually), you have to be open and looking for opportunities tho, than just seeing where life takes you.

I am currently studying at a brazillian university, the market here is shit, if you don't work for some governmental institution you'll probably earn shit money, think AVG R$ 2000 (reais) a month if you're lucky, that is 24k a year, in dollars right now this would be something like 7-8 thousand. That being said, i would like to know if there is space for me to work in the united states or somewhere in europe ( my conversational english is golden, i learned when i was 12, and i get compliments by foreigner all the time), I also have a italian citizenship, so europe would be probably easier to stay without visa annoyances..

And if there is an opening in the market, what would be needed for me to have a chance against the competition.. What colleges should I go (after I graduate here, since as far as I know i would have to study at least one more year) to have more rep' when looking for a job ?

I would be very pleased if someone could give me some feedback and probably some rep points in the way.

Post: #134

(05-11-2016 01:12 PM)Mjölnir Wrote:  Bump, great thread.

I would like to ask fellow accountants how is the market for foreigners. ...
And if there is an opening in the market, what would be needed for me to have a chance against the competition.. What colleges should I go (after I graduate here, since as far as I know i would have to study at least one more year) to have more rep' when looking for a job ?

Hi,

for accounting it's necessary to have certain knowledge in the respective local GAP.
So it's best to study in the respective country at least for a term abroad, maybe make a Master's there.
Italy is jobwise very difficult (and you haven't mentioned the knowledge of the language).
Honestly in your case I would try to check out Germany, because with a EU Passport you are allowed to unlimited residency etc. here.
I live here and know that there is a very solid demand for people doing this (mostly Big4). At least semi-useful German is necessary though, I'd estimate a year for this. Also here in Munich are a lot of Brazilians doing exactly this.

Regarding the US, for Brazilians (and europeans, as far as I'm concerned) it's very difficult to obtain a work permit there (it would be a H1B visa)- only if you studied there, then you can obtain one easily. Studying there costs a lot, while it doesn't cost anything in Germany. Having to pay back a student loan isn't really sexy, in my opinion.
I would advise you to do this.
Make term abroad in Germany
If you like it, get your Master's in Germany
Then you will find a job who pays around 40 - 45k € per year in this field.
Bonus would be to create a brazilian - german competence, maybe becoming expert in im/export , or something like this, which could be a side business idea (I know someone doing this)

This comes from a German who isn't a fan of Germany at all, but I understand that Germany still is way better for average people than Brazil.

Post: #135

Thanks for the feedback and the ideas ssvle. Appreciate it man. Yeah, i only speak the real basics of italian, i was thinking germany/UK really, i'm starting german lessons in my uni next semester, i've always liked the language and it's a useful one, i pretend to learn italian too, but just because its a pretty language, not thinking workwise or anything. That gives me 3 years of classes to be proficient in deutsch. Which I think i can pull it off..

What are your toughts on England/UK ? Do you have any knowledge of the market there ?

Yeah, I just hope this hole immigrants thing gets solved in the next 3/4 years.. But even with it, still better than Brazil.

Post: #136

Cobra this is great info.

Where do you recommend a business owner go to get a better grasp of accounting and balance sheets.

Yes there are many business owners myself included who suck at accounting.

Post: #137

Firstly gents, my apologies for being a bit late to respond. I have been very busy digging myself out of a hole in my current role, which more or less is sales of Accounting people and skills. I'll respond to the unanswered inquiries below.

(05-11-2016 01:12 PM)Mjölnir Wrote:  Bump, great thread.

I would like to ask fellow accountants how is the market for foreigners. I'm really raw at accounting, I'm in the middle of the second semester. But I like to plan things, as this metod seem to work better (usually), you have to be open and looking for opportunities tho, than just seeing where life takes you.

I am currently studying at a brazillian university, the market here is shit, if you don't work for some governmental institution you'll probably earn shit money, think AVG R$ 2000 (reais) a month if you're lucky, that is 24k a year, in dollars right now this would be something like 7-8 thousand. That being said, i would like to know if there is space for me to work in the united states or somewhere in europe ( my conversational english is golden, i learned when i was 12, and i get compliments by foreigner all the time), I also have a italian citizenship, so europe would be probably easier to stay without visa annoyances..

And if there is an opening in the market, what would be needed for me to have a chance against the competition.. What colleges should I go (after I graduate here, since as far as I know i would have to study at least one more year) to have more rep' when looking for a job ?

I would be very pleased if someone could give me some feedback and probably some rep points in the way.

It will not be easy for me to respond to the geographic specifics of your question. However, I can still provide context as I'm aware of how the global market functions. Reputation in the Accounting profession is directly correlated with (1) where you go to school and (2) where you have worked. Nothing else means much. You can have the best grades and test scores in the country, but unless they are from reputable institutions, you are not gaining a reputation.

If the schools in Brazil are bad, then you need to move to Europe or the USA NOW to find a good Accounting program. As long as you are willing to put in the work, you will gain a better bang for your buck in reputable institutions. You may even be able to find one in Italy. As the international community converges to a uniform accounting guidance, lots of schools are focused on the universal standards rather than local rules. So you are asking questions at a good time.

Also remember this: good Finance and Accounting jobs in the USA are connected to good colleges in the USA. To clarify, what I mean is that reputable companies hire from reputable schools. If you break that connection, you will end up in a lower tier of jobs. This is fine but it's good to know the difference.

(06-07-2016 10:19 AM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  Cobra this is great info.

Where do you recommend a business owner go to get a better grasp of accounting and balance sheets.

Yes there are many business owners myself included who suck at accounting.

The thing is, that as a small business owner, I would not recommend you get into learning accounting even at the introductory level. You just need to understand the basics, which are revenue, receivables and collections, inventory turnover, expenses and cash flow. As far as the rest of the grunt work or knowledge, find a decent local CPA or Chartered Accountant. Reason I say that is they will take all of the numbers you have and categorize them into the main components I noted earlier. At that point, you just need to set up an hour or so with them every month to ask them some key questions. At a basic level, I would not mind spending a little time on the phone with you free of charge but you will need someone dedicated that will help you control your cash flow and expenses so you can make more money. A few thousand bucks spent on a CPA will pay itself back in the long run because they should be able to convey to you what is important and filter out what is not. You are not going to be able to get that from a book or video.

Post: #138

So I graduated as a Biology major and economics minor 1.5 years ago. To keep it short, my university ( University of Alberta ) offers a 2 year after degree program for a business degree, where I can major in things like accounting or finance. (It also offers a 2 year nursing after degree. )

Should I go for accounting? Should I go for finance? Would the accounting pathway that Cobra described be basically the same for someone who is not starting fresh? How could I use my current degree to leverage my way into internships and future jobs?

Thanks

Post: #139

(03-31-2017 12:43 AM)sonoran_ Wrote:  So I graduated as a Biology major and economics minor 1.5 years ago. To keep it short, my university ( University of Alberta ) offers a 2 year after degree program for a business degree, where I can major in things like accounting or finance. (It also offers a 2 year nursing after degree. )

Should I go for accounting? Should I go for finance? Would the accounting pathway that Cobra described be basically the same for someone who is not starting fresh? How could I use my current degree to leverage my way into internships and future jobs?

Thanks

What have you been doing for the past 1.5 years? What appeals to you about accounting, vs finance or nursing?

Another Canadian cat, Dickerstaff1, was/is in a similar boat:
Going back to school to get a CPA thread

Reason I ask what specifically interests you about accounting is that a lot of people fall back asswards into the field after switching majors or working in an entirely different profession for a while; and while accounting offers a lot of versatility and opportunities to pivot toward something tangentially related and more lucrative throughout your career, I'd say roughly half of the people who end up in accounting without a good reason end up disillusioned and burned out after a few years. So, I'm curious to know your take on it.

Post: #140

Was working in jobs that had no relation to my education. Was also out of the country for 4 months during this time.

At this point in my life I just need a path and Cobra has laid out a perfect path where someone can follow and get almost identical results. Im going to go look at some accounting textbooks to actually see what its about before I decide to do anything.

I would pick nursing as there is upwards potential but I dont know if I could deal with shit and vomit at the level that nurses do( blood is fine).
Ive gone through a lot of options such as dentist, doctor, physician assistant, radiation therapy, medical physics, physio/occupational therapy/ optometry but for all of these I would have to go to Eastern Europe or India to study and then transitioning back to the North American market would total 5-10 years. I cant get in here because my gpa was aight ( 3.2 ) and no medical related extracurriculars.

I'm even considering trades, but if I want a "professional" degree than a 2 year accounting or finance might be the best there is for me. Main thing for me is not wasting my earning potential for my entire 20's.

Post: #141

Question: do there currently exist any automatic systems for forcing accounting procedures? I.e. when you make a purchase, receive a payment etc, it dumps those into a stack of "to-account-fors" in your accounting software? Or makes you immediately account for it?

Or does everyone still just manually do it by reconciling line by line against a bank statement periodically?

Post: #142

Also Sonoran why don't you lay out your own personal specific pros/cons, motivations/reservations for the things so we can agree/criticize to your benefit. I.e. why wouldn't you go into accounting?

Post: #143

(03-31-2017 11:51 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Question: do there currently exist any automatic systems for forcing accounting procedures? I.e. when you make a purchase, receive a payment etc, it dumps those into a stack of "to-account-fors" in your accounting software? Or makes you immediately account for it?

Or does everyone still just manually do it by reconciling line by line against a bank statement periodically?

Pretty much every comprehensive accounting system offers the ability to interface various subledgers into your general ledger. For example, an Accounts Receivable subledger/module, where issuing an invoice to a particular customer triggers recording an entry to your AR GL account and revenue or deferred revenue; or a cash subledger, where by sorting through and categorizing your cash receipts and disbursements it will almost entirely take care of the ledger entries for you. If you don't have a lot of unusual nonrecurring transactions, it ends up being fairly foolproof if you know what you're doing.

Of course those normally add ons to your annual license cost. I'm guessing you're asking in relation to small scale operations, where you're the owner/operator and also serve as your own bookkeeper and tax preparer?

Post: #144

Sonoran, it sounds like you're not necessarily married to any one path going forward, but don't have a lot of direct exposure to accounting. How hard would it be to sign up for a few night classes in accounting/finance, that could be broadly applied to a full degree in either field, to get your feet wet a little bit and see what it's all about? In my case that's how I decided to go full steam ahead in accounting (albeit, while I was already enrolled in an engineering program) -- and you may find that after some of the courses you had as part of a biology program, accounting and finance are child's play for you while your classmates are struggling with the concept of addition and subtraction.

Post: #145

@Sonoran, set your expectations carefully and realize which of the paths I laid out fit for you.

I have quite a few people on the forum and otherwise from less recognized universities and colleges asking me if they can somehow get into the Big 4 or large companies. Remember that unless these companies actively recruit from your school through the local student business fraternities, it's damn near impossible.

This does not mean you won't have a great career in Accounting. You can still work for a great midsize company and do really well. Some well recognized brands are midsize. My point is that it's tough to switch paths from small company path or midsize company path to large companies unless you network really really well.

Instead of going to "classes," here is my suggestion: Attend any meetings or local events that your student finance or accounting clubs sponsor. Talk to these people directly, and keep in touch with them by asking them relevant questions. Maybe build a rapport and take them out to lunch or drinks if you want to do next level shit.

This will go a longer way in allowing you to see the local vibe of "working" in the profession than classes will give you. Truth be told, most professors in Finance or Accounting know jack shit about what makes a professional successful or how enjoyable the profession can be. If they did, most of them wouldn't be teaching. I'm just being honest.

Post: #146

Regarding Big 4 recruiting, Im pretty sure they do recruit from my university. Its just a matter of fitting networking, studying, interning etc. into a 2 year after degree (2nd degree) accounting program.

If I dont land an internship in the summer after year 1, it could be a huge problem it seems.

Post: #147

(04-03-2017 04:40 PM)sonoran_ Wrote:  Regarding Big 4 recruiting, Im pretty sure they do recruit from my university. Its just a matter of fitting networking, studying, interning etc. into a 2 year after degree (2nd degree) accounting program.

If I dont land an internship in the summer after year 1, it could be a huge problem it seems.

You really need to track down the Big 4 or large companies at your school to maximize your opportunities man.

Regarding time management, I'll be honest with you. I was able to fit in networking, interning and studying in to the last 2 years in school which were accounting focused. I still had time left over. So I know you can do it. I'm also not particularly smart although I can sound like it. My GPA was low (~3.3/4.0) but enough to get into the local accounting fraternity Beta Alpha Psi. Once I got in, I ran for president and was elected. It was all chance but I took a bunch of risks that paid off.

Regarding how your career will be affected by an internship, as far as an internship being a do or die in the first year, it's really not. However, it will significantly increase your chances of landing a job at any large company including Big 4. All you have to do during the internship is not fuck up. Period.

Regarding, how internships fit into the grand scheme of a large company's long term headcount plans, I'll put this in perspective for you at a macro level. There are only about half or maybe even less internship positions available at any company compared to full time positions during the same hiring period, for example summer in the Big 4. So on one end you're pretty much guaranteed a job if you land one. Let's look at the other side. In comparison to internships, since there are a lot more full time roles available, it's actually much easier to get a full time role directly. You just absolutely need to make sure your GPA I'd close as possible to the maximum. If that was your reason for not landing an internship, make damn well sure that this is no longer a variable in your last year.

I hate to sound like a broken record but GPA and school recognition are the 2 biggest reasons people make it to Big 4. Then it's networking. Say your GPA is 3.5, the BARE MINIMUM, then you better network and do it asap. The more you're involved with the local student organizations, the better.

I really look forward to your progress and hope you report back as you move forward.

Post: #148

(03-31-2017 12:15 PM)Pollito Wrote:  

(03-31-2017 11:51 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Question: do there currently exist any automatic systems for forcing accounting procedures? I.e. when you make a purchase, receive a payment etc, it dumps those into a stack of "to-account-fors" in your accounting software? Or makes you immediately account for it?

Or does everyone still just manually do it by reconciling line by line against a bank statement periodically?

Pretty much every comprehensive accounting system offers the ability to interface various subledgers into your general ledger. For example, an Accounts Receivable subledger/module, where issuing an invoice to a particular customer triggers recording an entry to your AR GL account and revenue or deferred revenue; or a cash subledger, where by sorting through and categorizing your cash receipts and disbursements it will almost entirely take care of the ledger entries for you. If you don't have a lot of unusual nonrecurring transactions, it ends up being fairly foolproof if you know what you're doing.

Of course those normally add ons to your annual license cost. I'm guessing you're asking in relation to small scale operations, where you're the owner/operator and also serve as your own bookkeeper and tax preparer?

Agree with all of this. I hate to be a stickler but in addition to accounting for "transactional" items like purchases, sales, etc., any accounting shop worth its salt also will reconcile every significant account once a month to make sure things hang together. For example, with cash, you might have deposits that didn't clear or even checks hanging out there that you need to keep track of for your "real" cash balance. I believe CPAs should do this for you or you should ask them to.

Post: #149

Question -

Does anyone who's already spent some time in accounting have experience with teaching night/weekend accounting classes as a part time instructor/lecturer/adjunct faculty? If so, what should I expect in getting into it, and what are your thoughts on the value in doing so?

I'm very interested in doing it. Seems it can only serve as a resume builder and opportunity to hone public speaking skills. Plus, potential networking potential if it's at a decent school.

I searched the forum and didn't come up with anything directly related; figured I'd start in this thread since it's probably of pretty narrow interest (and since this thread has turned into the de facto accounting subforum).

Post: #150

I have no experience in the matter but if I had the chance to teach at university or even teach a hobby ( dance, tennis etc) I would do it.

You mentioned all the benefits to it and I read that teachers have massive status when in comes to females in your classes, as you are seen as an authority figure.

Downsides:
- tread carefully when it comes to girls
- university politics and SJWness ?