(06-08-2016 02:40 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  

(06-08-2016 02:36 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Here's a decent and short article regarding bitcoin's current bullish status


https:[email protected]/erik-finm....on4a54rz4


And, this string of posts, is a decent discussion regarding how Bitcoin "HODLers" could be doing based on changes in BTC prices in recent years.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comment...even_hodl/


And, this string of posts, considers future BTC price potentials considering a market cap of $1 to $2 trillion in the comments.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comment...your_moon/

Nothing new?

May not be completely new because it repeats themes that were discussed in the past, but it remains current news in the bitcoin space and based on contemporary discussions.

Bitcoin is now in 2016, and we are no longer in mid 2015, the point in which you sold all your bitcoins... we had progressed beyond that 2014-2015 downtrend (prolonged bear market), and really it should be understood, at least by now, that bitcoin appears to be in the precipices of a fairly significant uptrend... which could become upwardly explosive at some point in the near future, whether RVF guys have already profited from that recent uptrend or want to get some stake in the game at this particular price point, that is their choice.

Even though we have experienced some fairly significant upward price movements (a bit more than 30%) in recent weeks (from about $435 to $580), Bitcoin seems to remain as a "buy"..., but yeah, of course, each guy has to decide for himself and his own financial circumstances regarding whether, how, and how much to put in, if anything at this price point.

I explained my previous trades a few pages back because you were repetadly spreading misinformation. Clearly you must have missed that post because you are still doing it.

(06-08-2016 06:16 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  I explained my previous trades a few pages back because you were repetadly spreading misinformation. Clearly you must have missed that post because you are still doing it.

Why does it matter regarding your Bitcoin trading specifics, except you keep popping into this thread and wanting to spread anti-bitcoin sentiment?

Unless some facts regarding your investment have changed, you have not bought back into bitcoin after the $200s (which was August / September 2015 time frame) because you believe that it is better to be invested in various other alt coins, such as maidsafe... and possibly Ethereum.

Sure, you are welcome to provide an update regarding your bitcoin considerations, to the extent that you believe any of those considerations are relevant to bitcoin and whether guys should consider investing in bitcoin (or not investing into bitcoin as seems to be what you would be suggesting through your own actions?).

Anyhow, update us if you believe that it is relevant to the thread or necessary to clarify the record.

This thread is about bitcoin, and sometime bringing up the considerations of others and the bitcoin thread posts of others could be relevant to any bitcoin discussions.

I would hate to mischaracterizing anything, and I can only remember so much, and no personal attacks are really on purpose, except to the extent that they may seem to be relevant, in the context of whatever I had posted (which was in fact responding to your one liner in the earlier post), and if you believe that a certain post of yours is relevant to any claim that you are making or have made, then link it, if you believe that would be helpful to anyone that might care.

Personal stories and experiences surely have the potential of being relevant, especially to the extent that they are connected with bitcoin, whether those stories are bullish or bearish regarding bitcoin, and especially if they may relate to current considerations that guys may be undertaking in deciding the extent to which to get involved in bitcoin, if at all.

(06-06-2016 07:21 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  So basically a fund with crypto instead of stocks?

A fund in a loose term. They are like a VC fund allocating money(Ether) to 'projects' which may or may not be for profit. Any of the projects that do earn returns flows back to the DAO. A little bit comparable to Berkshire or a conglomerate which earns from its subsidiaries, the caveat being the DAO may or may not, like a VC fund, own the project/company outright.

There is some tension in the air, currently regarding whether the dollar (and US stocks and other dollar based investments) are going to be able to stay up in value based on recent economic reports, while gold and bitcoin prices seems to be experiencing upward trends.

The title of the below linked article is:

US Dollar Crashes, Gold And Bitcoin Skyrocket As Economic Recovery Lie Is Exposed

(06-08-2016 08:44 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Why does it matter regarding your Bitcoin trading specifics, except you keep popping into this thread and wanting to spread anti-bitcoin sentiment?

Unless some facts regarding your investment have changed, you have not bought back into bitcoin after the $200s (which was August / September 2015 time frame) because you believe that it is better to be invested in various other alt coins, such as maidsafe... and possibly Ethereum.

Sure, you are welcome to provide an update regarding your bitcoin considerations, to the extent that you believe any of those considerations are relevant to bitcoin and whether guys should consider investing in bitcoin (or not investing into bitcoin as seems to be what you would be suggesting through your own actions?).

Anyhow, update us if you believe that it is relevant to the thread or necessary to clarify the record.

This thread is about bitcoin, and sometime bringing up the considerations of others and the bitcoin thread posts of others could be relevant to any bitcoin discussions.

I would hate to mischaracterizing anything, and I can only remember so much, and no personal attacks are really on purpose, except to the extent that they may seem to be relevant, in the context of whatever I had posted (which was in fact responding to your one liner in the earlier post), and if you believe that a certain post of yours is relevant to any claim that you are making or have made, then link it, if you believe that would be helpful to anyone that might care.

Personal stories and experiences surely have the potential of being relevant, especially to the extent that they are connected with bitcoin, whether those stories are bullish or bearish regarding bitcoin, and especially if they may relate to current considerations that guys may be undertaking in deciding the extent to which to get involved in bitcoin, if at all.

You sound like a broken record, just saying.

(06-09-2016 06:18 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  You sound like a broken record, just saying.

Below is a link to a decent bullish article that outlines and substantiates 10 reasons to buy bitcoin at the current market price. The article kind of repeats several of my allegedly "broken record" ideas in respect to bitcoin, just saying.

https:[email protected]/10-good-r....k0nfg3wyj



Does anyone have any contentions with any of the 10 reasons contained in the linked article? Of course, it is possible to quibble with some of the evidence provided therein, yet I'm largely in agreement with the various points of the self-proclaimed bitcoin advocate.

Of course, guys need to consider any buy or sell recommendation information with a grain of salt and act upon his own particular financial circumstances, risk tolerance and views.

Henry Brade seems to be a bag holder.

"7. The solutions to the scaling issues of Bitcoin exist and are progressing"

"9. Bitcoin is getting smarter smart contracts than Ethereum"

Trying to stop the boat from sinking. Might work for a while but sooner or later the ship will be on the bottom on the sea. Maybe then you'd start to do some reading on the way superior alternatives.

There's no reason that you need to attempt to be competitive about these kinds of topics, Satoshi, and yeah we are going to see how all of these various crypto currencies play out, whether they are called a crypto currency or a new kind of asset.

I have no problem about your expressing your views regarding why you believe bitcoin is going to fail as compared to some other crypto, but do you have some kind of reason that you feel that you need to be an absolutist in your manner of presenting your viewpoint?

I concede that your views could still play out to be correct, but from my thinking the odds seem to be quite a bit less than 50% that you are correct, as compared with the way that things seem to be playing out......

We could also discuss the questions in terms of proposed timelines...

For example:

Will bitcoin fail in 1 year, 5 years or 10 years..?

or

Will some alt coin take over bitcoin's king of crypto place in 1 year, 5 years or 10 years?

Of course, there are different ways to specifically present these kinds of questions, without just making conclusory assertions.

I personally believe that the answer regarding assigned probabilities is a bit different depending on which questions you are asking and about which alt coin you are discussing. The answer to each of these kinds of questions are not 100% yes and 100% no as you seem to be asserting, respectively to the above questions, Satoshi.

(06-09-2016 03:52 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  Henry Brade seems to be a bag holder.

"7. The solutions to the scaling issues of Bitcoin exist and are progressing"

Yep, there are a lot of scaling solutions for bitcoin currently in the works, and seg wit is the nearest to being implemented.

The XT/Classic supporters may be a big vocal group in their ongoing screaming that bitcoin does not scale, but really they are losing a lot of their credibility in the space. So, just because some of these kinds of loud bitcoin is dead folks have been very vocal in the bitcoin community does not mean that they are correct in either their facts or their logic.

In fact, there is no real evidence to establish that bitcoin is currently in any kind of scaling crisis nor any emergency situation (as these naysayers frequently are inclined to assert).

In fact some of these bitcoin naysayers had been attempting to undermine bitcoin and to change it's governance while asserting that the scaling issue is a problem... Kind of a made up assertion. In that regard, they don't even give a shit about bitcoin's scaling, but they are using that as a talking point in order to cause bitcoin to be more easily changed, or forked.

Actually, bitcoin's difficulties in causing changes to its governance and technical issues is a feature of bitcoin rather than a bug that makes bitcoin much more secure because the loud mouths in the minority do not easily cause changes to bitcoin's protocol in spite their ongoing complaining and feeble attempts at mustering negative bitcoin press, unless they can convince an overwhelming majority of bitcoin stake holders (in this case core supporters) that such proposed change(s) is(are) needed and not controversial.

The XT and Classic proponent loud mouths have failed to establish their case, but they keep crying even though it is seeming more and more clear that they were full of nonsense in their various assertions regarding bitcoin being "broken."

(06-09-2016 03:52 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  "9. Bitcoin is getting smarter smart contracts than Ethereum"

Trying to stop the boat from sinking. Might work for a while but sooner or later the ship will be on the bottom on the sea. Maybe then you'd start to do some reading on the way superior alternatives.

Regarding smart contracts, there is a lot of development in a lot of different spaces. We cannot really know for sure how it is going to play out because there are even competing private sector ventures, too, beyond what Ethereum is doing.

Some of this will likely be absorbed by bitcoin, and no matter what there remains a considerable amount of value in the amount of computing power that goes into securing the bitcoin network - no matter what application and/or innovation is built upon it, whether directly or indirectly through some innovative allegedly "superior alternative"

The attached article contained in the link appears to have been published in April 2016, and provides some interesting discussion concerning smart contract complexities.

Whether smart contracts are accomplished through bitcoin, ethereum or some other alt coin, there is a long way to go between talking about theories of smart contracts and seeing some real world implementations that protect data and provide security.

http://www.multichain.com/blog/2016/04/b...-contract/

Ultimately, until I encounter some evidence to the contrary, I sense that the security of bitcoin's blockchain, and the underlying immutability of bitcoin and the underlying permissionless nature of it is going to be a much better platform upon which to build (or at least to secure) smart contracts to the extent that any of these smart contracts may be transmitting or describing items of value.

On the other hand, if there are smart contracts in which there is not a lot of value involved, then possibly various off chain implementations are going to be fine for such (and sure more flexible, but no one is really talking about being able to do this directly on bitcoin's ledger anyhow, even though seg wit and even rootstock are going to allow for some of these kinds of off chain solutions that are directly interacting and confirming with bitcoin's blockchain on a regular basis). Even ethereum could work for securing such non-value transactions, but it could be some other alt-platform (whether centralized or quasi-decentralized or supposedly completely decentralized).

As I type this, bitcoin seems to be the most decentralized of any of the cryptos because it is secured by an immutable and permissionless ledger that no one can change because of the computing power involved to attempt to hack it, involving proof of work... no other alt crypto has computing power of any meaningful comparability to bitcoin that is dedicated to securing their ledger.. which make those other alt coins subject to interventions by individuals or small groups of people, even though that may be efficient to achieve the objectives of the small groups of folks.

In the end, bitcoin's permissionless immutability (also described as lacking flexibility in the actual blockchain) remains a valuable feature and not a debilitating bug.

I promised myself I was going to sell off at 650about 5 mos ago but I didn't.

(06-12-2016 04:25 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  I promised myself I was going to sell off at 650about 5 mos ago but I didn't.

Yeah, currently, there is a lot of upwards price pressures, so it makes it difficult to sell off, especially in the coming weeks too, when the public may kind of catch on to some of this hype... who knows?

If you are feeling a bit nervous regarding another possible crash, it could be fruitful to take some off the table at some point during these run ups.. ..

You can never tell for sure if it is going to reverse or that we may be being played in some kind of way... hahahaha

When do you considering selling JJG? Still at 5000-8000$? Keep it short plz.

(06-12-2016 05:31 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  When do you considering selling JJG? Still at 5000-8000$? Keep it short plz.

Yes please.

I appreciate the wealth of knowledge in this thread. One question I don't think popped up is about using sites like Coinbase, and how effective they are for investing in BTC.

It seems like Coinbase doesn't allow you to sell BTC to someone else, only to use it to buy products and the like. Or perhaps i'm wrong.

The reason Coinbase stood out to me is because it seems like an easy way to buy BTC. The process of getting a wallet and all the other steps involved seem a bit over my head.

Sorry for the newb question but any feedback would be appreciated.

(06-12-2016 05:31 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  When do you considering selling JJG? Still at 5000-8000$? Keep it short plz.

Look at you... Striving to circumscribe artistic creativity through some kind of dictation of brevity.




I have continuously described my investment into bitcoin as an intended long-term proposition, and of course, I have considered various scenarios in which exiting bitcoin in total would be warranted. However, many of the fundamentals of bitcoin are in place, and these fundamentals seem to be even quite a bit stronger than when I began investing in bitcoin... there have been nearly three years of further development, and bitcoin is not long in the tooth but still seems to be in its very early stages of development and adoption.

Therefore, bitcoin seems to be much more incline and even set up for an exponential growth phase, rather than some kind of decline and exit planning scenario.

This time the exponential growth phase of bitcoin, perhaps will come from a base of $400-ish, rather than $100-ish or sub-100-ish, which was the case of the two exponential growth phases of bitcoin in 2013.

Yeah, I don't know how this whole thing is going to play out, so there is a need to keep my ears to the ground, but I cannot see myself getting out of bitcoin in total anytime soon - especially when I have accumulated a lot of bitcoin..

Furthermore, I have been continuously disclosing that I have been selling small amounts of BTC on the way up, so I have accumulated a lot of stacking of fiat in my portfolio. So my BTC portfolio seems to be very well set up for price movements in either direction, in which I can profit either way... so why would I plan to get out of a good thing?

I have also created various target allocation percentages for various price points, and of course I can adjust them along the way. Just to give some ideas, my current allocations from a few weeks ago looks like this:


Price = BTC Allocation(remainder in fiat)
$200-$350 = 97-99.5%
$350-$450 = 96-99%
$450-$550 = 92-98%
$550-$650 = 90-95%
$650-$850 = 85-93%
$850-$1,250 = 84-92%
$1,250-$2,000 = 83-91%
$2,000-$3,000 = 80-90%
$3,000-$5,000 = 55-84%



I have not yet projected for up to $8,000, but up to $5,000, it appears that I would still be at least 55% in bitcoin. Of course, my plan is not set in stone, so I will remain flexible based on new information to the extent it affects my thinking.

(06-12-2016 05:44 PM)Seth_Rose Wrote:  I appreciate the wealth of knowledge in this thread. One question I don't think popped up is about using sites like Coinbase, and how effective they are for investing in BTC.

Well, there can be a bit of confusion in getting started with bitcoin, and setting up various bitcoin services. The various bitcoin services evolve through the years, and they also change what they provide.

Coinbase is one of the largest of the mainstream ways to get into bitcoin and to hook up a bank account. They are fairly heavily compliant with various regulations. Many people use coinbase to initially purchase coins, and then transfer the coins to another wallet in order to have more control over the wallet. Each service has different kinds of fee setups, and you can compare their rates, once you set up, and since the market fluctuates, the rate could be more competitive on one service versus another service, but coinbase is not a bad way to get started.

You can also use Circle to get coins and there are various other ways to get coins such as Gemini or Uphold. Some methods are more secure than others in terms of risk for losing your coins, and that may be part of the reason that many people prefer to move their coins to their own wallet in order to maintain control over your private keys. Actually, Blockchain.info has a good cloudbased wallet service in which they claim to not have access to your private keys, and they have been in the business for several years.

(06-12-2016 05:44 PM)Seth_Rose Wrote:  It seems like Coinbase doesn't allow you to sell BTC to someone else, only to use it to buy products and the like. Or perhaps i'm wrong.

If you want to buy and sell individually, I would not use Coinbase or circle for these kinds of deals, except possibly for once in a while. Of course you can send coins to people through these services and they can pay you for the coins, so you may find a way to make it work for you. I tend to use my blockchain.info wallet for my private transactions, except my mom has a circle account, so it is easy for me to send to her through circle, and one of my friends has a coinbase account, and he has paid me a few times through coinbase.

One thing is to get some coins, and then to set up a few different services and then to practice with some of them. Possibly, in the beginning, you will just be accumulating some coins, so you may not use it very much in the beginning for transactions.

(06-12-2016 05:44 PM)Seth_Rose Wrote:  The reason Coinbase stood out to me is because it seems like an easy way to buy BTC. The process of getting a wallet and all the other steps involved seem a bit over my head.

You are correct more or less that it is one of the fairly easy was to begin to buy BTC.. and after you shop around for a while, you may find cheaper ways.. but coinbase is not a bad choice for starting out.

You don't necessarily need to start out with a private wallet, but some people highly recommend setting up a private wallet to keep your coins away from centralized services and some of that third party risk that comes with having someone else control your private keys (which is what happens through many of those services such as coinbase and circle).

(06-12-2016 05:44 PM)Seth_Rose Wrote:  Sorry for the newb question but any feedback would be appreciated.

I think newbie questions are really great; however, I may give you a different answer depending on the day of the week, and some guys have different experiences too, and can chime in as well.

As you begin to try out some of these services , tell us about your experiences and come back with anymore questions or suggestions...

+1 JJG!

I was planning to buy it a week or so ago at $560. Now it's at $710

Oh well, I still think there's a bunch of potential. Will have to get on this train soon!

(06-13-2016 10:02 AM)Seth_Rose Wrote:  +1 JJG!

I was planning to buy it a week or so ago at $560. Now it's at $710

Oh well, I still think there's a bunch of potential. Will have to get on this train soon!

Thanks for the plus 1.


It's a bit more morally difficult to recommend buying while there is a pump going on and after there has been a prolonged pump, yet I agree with you that there remains a lot of upside potential, and it cannot be easy to know exactly where to jump on the train, and if it is going to stop at any such point. Each of us do need to decide for ourselves a kind of strategy to get some skin in the game and to possibly attempt to keep our average cost per BTC as reasonable as we can under the circumstances and at the point in which we decide to begin to invest.

Once you have some skin in the game, you can play around with the BTC that you have accumulated and learn more about the various services and even how they interrelate and are constantly in a state of development with a lot of ongoing developments and innovations in this space.

Even me, I have been in this for a while, and yeah, I first began to accumulate in Coinbase in late 2013 (but when I started Coinbase was one of the only ways to reasonably get into bitcoin).

Now there are quite a few competitors that I mentioned, some that I did not mention, and there are likely a lot more that I did not even think about and more coming along, too.

In your present circumstances, there may be ways to buy on dips and sell very small amounts on price rises, while still accumulating; however, usually while you are accumulating, you may not want to sell too many, but there may be ways to do it.

Sometimes we can make various mistakes because it is difficult to know short term price movements, even when it seems inevitably going in one direction or another.

For example, today, my BTC alarm kept going off because the price was going up.. first it went off at $706 and then I sold some went back to sleep and it went off again at $720 and I sold a bit more.

But then I kind of got greedy myself, and I figured that the price is going to keep going up, and I only sold a little bit. Then all of a sudden it goes down from $725 to $650, and at that point, I am able to catch buying some at $670, and all of this opportunity and mistakes merely because I have set up some BTC in various places and some fiat based on selling some of it along the way that it has been tracing back up.

Anyhow, I guess that part of my point is that once you are in, you may notice what appears to be great buying opportunities and to improve your own average cost per BTC. Come back and let us know how you proceed - to the extent that you are comfortable sharing some of your personal experiences in this space.

Below are a couple of articles that describe a considerable amount of bitcoin seed money - that seems to be heads and shoulders higher than previous bitcoin related investments. 1.5 Billion is a lot of money, and it seems that the total investments in bitcoin up until today, are only about that amount in total, so doubling investments into bitcoin seems to be a big WOW!!



Andreessen Horowitz’s Recent $1.5B Round Could Be Big for Bitcoin.


https://news.bitcoin.com/horowitz-capita...s-bitcoin/

- and another variation of the news

http://fortune.com/2016/06/10/andreessen...-new-fund/

It's gonna be interesting to see where this money goes, new start ups or existing businesses?

(06-12-2016 04:25 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  I promised myself I was going to sell off at 650about 5 mos ago but I didn't.

El Mech:

$725 may have been a good exit point? hahahahaha...

I have a feeling that we will be returning to prices higher than $725 in the coming week or so, but yeah, you can never know for sure with bitcoin, if we are going to get stuck in some price suppression for an extended period of time.

(06-13-2016 03:18 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(06-12-2016 04:25 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  I promised myself I was going to sell off at 650about 5 mos ago but I didn't.

El Mech:

$725 may have been a good exit point? hahahahaha...

I have a feeling that we will be returning to prices higher than $725 in the coming week or so, but yeah, you can never know for sure with bitcoin, if we are going to get stuck in some price suppression for an extended period of time.

Fuck it I'm just going to let it ride to the moon or to 0.

(06-13-2016 03:47 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(06-13-2016 03:18 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(06-12-2016 04:25 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  I promised myself I was going to sell off at 650about 5 mos ago but I didn't.

El Mech:

$725 may have been a good exit point? hahahahaha...

I have a feeling that we will be returning to prices higher than $725 in the coming week or so, but yeah, you can never know for sure with bitcoin, if we are going to get stuck in some price suppression for an extended period of time.

Fuck it I'm just going to let it ride to the moon or to 0.

That's more or less what my mom said, without the "fuck it" part.


I pretty much got my mom to buy some at $375, and then we experienced nearly a year of down market, which was not really too good for my credibility. During that time she picked up a few more coins, and she figured out some ways to trade. She gained some and she lost some with her trading ventures, and then I think that she pretty much gave up on attempting any trading. She said that it was too time consuming, and wasn't really paying off for her.

Nonetheless, I kept pestering her about coming up with a general plan for what she was going to do at various theoretical price points, and frequently, she would make denigrating comments about my bullish views, but probably some of it was sinking in because she continued to HODL and not SODL. She pretty much said that she was going to play it by ear.

I think that her average price is in the mid $300s, and she has quite a few coins, but not really any major investment that she would go starving if BTC were to go to zero.. I think less than $10k...

At some price points, there may be some clear signal to shed a few coins (or maybe all of it?).. but I don't think that we are near that point yet.

I am pretty much still of the belief that we could experience some considerable price corrections in the $600 to $850 price arena, but once we make it significantly in the $800s, depending upon how long it takes to happen, we are likely going to shoot to the $3k to $5k arena... but yeah, I may need to adjust my thinking too, and we have to see how it plays out.

You should've cashed her out at 7 you'd be a hero.

(06-13-2016 04:39 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  You should've cashed her out at 7 you'd be a hero.

Probably, we have to look in retrospect about whether we made a good choice?

My girlfriend is more inclined towards trading, and she is constantly cashing out with small profits and then buying in again.

Sure she is making profits, but those profits seem to be a lot less than if she had just accumulated coins.

I try to share my method with her, but she is stubborn as fuck, mostly. From time to time, she comes around a little bit, but overall, she seems to have some faulty thinking and/or assumptions that are difficult to shake. Maybe I need to grab her by the shoulders and shake until she agrees to comply? Drastic times call for drastic measures, but it is her money, so why should I give any fucks besides repeating I told you so on an ongoing basis?