Post: #1

The forum has always gave me great feedback that helps me made decisions during critical points in my life, Im coming back to pick your brain on this matter. Im a young guy in this matter so its good to have the wisdom of the ancients

Im about to finish internship in one of the biggest market research firm in Europe. Tomorrow my boss wants to talk to me about my internship, no doubt about whether or not I’ll get hired.

I went to HR earlier and that harpy gave me the typical: “we don’t have the budget to hire anyone” Yeah right. Richest firm in Europe. Anyway, for tomorrow 3 things could happen.

I don’t get hired. Fair and dandy, just “approach” jobs like I do girls and eventually I will find one, despite how shitty the job market in France is.

I get hired, in which case RVF has a Paris lodge for all visiting members

I get transferred to London. My boss asked me about this few months ago that they need people for the London team. I met the English team and though they are “nice”, they are every fucking bit the corporation nightmare we talk about here. The most “fuckable” girl in their team is barely a 6 with all the attitude, a metrosexual guy, the boss is a black woman and the CEO is a French-British guy with a squeakish voice.

So the job might be horrible, not to mention I have to leave everything behind (great friends, a beautiful and feminine LTR, fuckawesome poosy paradise), but we are men, we do what we must and we must be practical. The way my boss is, I would have to give him an answer right then, so I wont have time tomorrow to come back here for advice. Better comes prepared.

A few things I would want to know:

1. Citizenship. How do people get naturalized in UK? If I got a job and stay in France for 3 more years I can get citizenship. UK citizenship would be just fine, but how hard is it to get? I read online about a whole ass craps of conditions, but maybe you guys can give me a better idea?

This so far its the biggest concern I have because I have stayed in Paris long enough that if I *just* make it for the next 4 years I might get French citizenship, because an EU/USA citizenship simply gives you so much freedom (I would keep the dual citizenship so its not like its a big deal anyway)

2. Political correctness. I lived in USA for a long time so I know how annoying this is. In Paris people give half a rat ass about political correctness. How bad is it in London?

3. Quality of girls. I know that England overall is bad, but what about London in particular? In paris I can confidently say 8/10 girls are not fat, 6 are fuckable and 4 are definitely eyecandy.

4. Career opportunity. I will be working an entry level position at our branch in London. Would slaving away for a few years in London worth it career wise? Are there lots of opportunities in London? It is certainly better than in Paris though

5. Living cost. I read an article about a guy who lives in Barcelona but flies to work in London and in the end its cheaper, just to say how horrendous the cost is. Can I expect to get my own pad in a not-so middle of nowhere for gaming purpose or is it gonna be roommate again?

Ultimately my question is that, is it worth leaving all I have here in Paris for London? I’m a young guy at 24, I’ve relocated across different countries all my life and had no problem. However, when I left Vietnam for USA, I was so excited I couldn’t wait to get on the plane. Same thing when I relocate from USA to France. But this time there’s something in me that doesn’t want to go. I never thought I would ever feel attached to a place in my life, but this time it sure does feel like so.

In the end, if it is practical to move, Im packing the bags.

Post: #2

(09-07-2015 06:35 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  1. Citizenship. How do people get naturalized in UK? If I got a job and stay in France for 3 more years I can get citizenship. UK citizenship would be just fine, but how hard is it to get? I read online about a whole ass craps of conditions, but maybe you guys can give me a better idea?.

So long as you skip the ticket booth and arrive underneath the train rather than on it, you're golden...

Post: #3

I found London to be overcrowded, overpriced, and overrated. It's a city that doesn't make much sense to live in unless you're making top bank (6+ digits per year). It was an enjoyable year socially, with many bars and friendly people from all over the world, but the costs and living conditions negated benefits I could otherwise enjoy elsewhere in Europe. You'll find yourself needing to leave the city on weekends just to maintain your sanity.

I would suggest looking elsewhere. Great girls, great for work, but expensive and miserable over the long term. Have you considered Germany?

Post: #4

TL;DR accept job offer in London if that is the only option, but don't leave behind your life in Paris. It's a 2h 50 min train ride between London and Paris. While working in London look for new jobs in Paris.

1) For citizenship I don't know but I doubt that you can use the time spent in France. You will likely start over 'from scratch'.

London isn't good for logistics and for girls. Outside of London it might be easer to get a 6 for a SNL. In London, no.

London is a nice city though but you need to have good money to really enjoy it as has been said. Long commutes to and from work aren't unusual. The standard of housing is generally low.

Don't leave your LTR behind like that. The likelihood of finding an equally good LTR in London might not be that good. It's probably easier for you to find a new gig in Paris than an equally good LTR in London. Just a guess though.

Slaving away might be good if you live in a city that you enjoy. If you work in London and just work, commute, work, commute and have horrible logistics in the weekends you would probably be miserable in the long run and it would probably affect how you perform at work.

Post: #5

I think it's 7 years. Maybe.

Seriously, unless you think you are going to be making serious waves financially, I'd give London a miss.

It's just horrendously expensive.

Post: #6

Expensive
Overcrowded
Commuting time can soon mount up unless you are living close to your work which would be costly in towards the centre.
Girls wise 8/10 usually have a few extra pounds at least for the English girls but with the Eastern European women it does help the numbers.

If the money is good stay in Paris and commute to London for the week days, best of both worlds then.

Post: #7

(09-07-2015 02:05 PM)mogsy Wrote:  If the money is good stay in Paris and commute to London for the week days, best of both worlds then.

Is this a practical solution? Are people actually doing this? I need to google the issue.

It is very clear to me that unless they are paying me very well (40k/year, I'm still at entry level) there's hardly any benefit in moving to London. I have digested all the good info from this forum and having met some british myself, I'd rather be poor and jobless in Paris than being a low level clerk in London.

Post: #8

I stopped reading after the part about Citizenship. If you have to wait 3 years in France to get citizenship, you should stay there. After that, you can go wherever you want. As far as I know from my friends in London, it could take 6 years or more to get citizenship there, and they are making it more and more difficult.

Post: #9

I think it takes more than 6 years to get citizenship in the UK. I know one person who had to wait close to 10 years, another case was a relative who married a foreign girl who had to wait over 7 years to get her papers.

If you like Paris, stay there and make it work. Find another job if need be in the same sector, you should have started looking already.

When I lived in London, I really enjoyed my weekend breaks.

Post: #10

(09-07-2015 03:28 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  I stopped reading after the part about Citizenship. If you have to wait 3 years in France to get citizenship, you should stay there. After that, you can go wherever you want. As far as I know from my friends in London, it could take 6 years or more to get citizenship there, and they are making it more and more difficult.

Thats why this is a pretty big deal for me to consider not leaving.

If all goes well (meaning I find a job that pays 2.2k euro/month thats the condition to be considered when you apply for citizenship) and working such job for 3 years you should be fine. That and the fact that I studied here. At worst it takes 5 years.

I think I was afraid that if I turn down the offer it would be a lost opportunity, but thats just unbased fear speaking. If Im good enough that they could send me to London, Im good enough to find a job here.

Thanks guys for the input, I know what to keep in mind for tomorrow. Ill see what my boss has to say.

Here s hoping I get hired in the HQ in Paris

Quote:If you like Paris, stay there and make it work. Find another job if need be in the same sector, you should have started looking already.

Working on it already bro, not looking good but I will overcome.

I can find a beautiful virgin in Paris to LTR up, no reason I shouldnt be able to find a job here

Post: #11

I cannot comment on living in Paris and London since I’ve only visited these two cities (and I’m aware that they are not necessarily representative of both countries), but I would not trade France for the UK.

- The weather is worse.
- The girls are far worse. UK girls are not only fat, they simply have ugly faces as well. Add to that the fake tan and layers of make up and you’ve got the ugliest women in the world as far as I’m concerned.
- The food is far worse. In France it’s easy to find good quality products since food is such an important part of the culture. The UK is full of processed crap.
- The working conditions are worse. Longer days, less days of.

I would only trade France for the UK if you could significantly increase your disposable income and buying/saving power by doing so. And by significantly I mean double or more.

Post: #12

Hey man,

I think we've discussed some of this in person, but having lived and worked in both Paris in London, here is my take on the two cities :

Quality of life :
Paris has the better food, is less expensive, and the rent is way cheaper, though the housing market is also much more illiquid. It can take a long while to find a nice flat (that is if you want to live in Paris and not in the suburbs). The subway is dirtier in Paris, more strikes and delay, but also cheaper. On the contrary, London feels more 'corporate' (more people wearing suits, working long hours...), but its very easy to find a flat, there are many gyms (of variable quality), many cool bars and restaurants, though you have to know where they are.

Work opportunities :
Like you already said, it can be tough to find a job in France, especially if you're a foreigner. Most people are camped up in CDI (undetermined length contract) and can't be fired no matter what. Thus many firms stopped hiring. Keep in mind that success is also not very well regarded in France, being "normal", like Hollande said, is more popular at the moment... In London the job market is more liquid, the pay is better on average, but that is offset by the cost of life.

People :
I'd say the people are generally friendlier in London, as it can be difficult to break the ice with French people sometimes. You've been in Paris for a while now so you should already have a nice social circle thing going on. If you go to London, it shouldn't be too hard to meet new friends from whichever background you like. Somehow I think the Brits are those who tend to stay in groups the more.

Girls :
Girls are prettier in Paris, that's for sure, but I'd say that they can be more annoying than English girls, or at least more pretentious. My opinion is that in France girls are less open to ONS, but better in the long run, and certainly more feminine.

If you do not get the job in Paris, my advice would be that unless you know the pay in London will be high enough for you to have the lifestyle that you want, you should stay in Paris and to look for another job. Depending on the type of firm you want to work for, I might be able to give you some contacts.

Post: #13

Yo Dalaran, keep us updated. I'm considering a move to one of these 2 cities in the future. It's actually a freaky coincidence this thread pops up. So far looks like if you got a decent paying job in France, that's the way to go.

Something people haven't mentioned, is there a difference in the ease of traveling around Europe from London or Paris, say if I want to go to Amsterdam, Barcelona, Berlin or wherever for a few days on holiday?

Also relevant, I found this article but wouldn't know how accurate it is.

some broad Wrote:2) Who wouldn’t love a 35 hour work week (down from the US standard of 40). If you do the math, that’s an extra 260 hours of your life a year to actually get something done. Pas mal! But really, I think it’s 3) the 5-9 weeks of vacation a year that takes the cake. And unlike Americans who pretend to take vacation and not work, the French actually take holiday. Trust me, I spent the summer with some, and they didn’t work AT ALL...

Post: #14

I've been here 11 yrs now .. Love the place for the most part !

London is the best city in the world if you have friends and money.
If you have no friends and no money it's probably the shittest city in the world !

Post: #15

(09-09-2015 03:56 PM)cosworth Wrote:  I've been here 11 yrs now .. Love the place for the most part !

London is the best city in the world if you have friends and money.
If you have no friends and no money it's probably the shittest city in the world !

What's your definition of 'no money'?

I would love to experience living in a big, happening western city like London but I can't stand consistently cold weather and it's obviously expensive. I would also love to live in a city with as many students and attractive girls as Paris but I can't stand the attitude of French people and the overrated, romanticised ideology of the place. Life is all about making sacrifices I guess. It all comes down to what you as an individual value most.

Post: #16

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the feedback. Kaeru let us catch up in person bro Im sending you a PM.

So I saw my boss. Gave me the usual: we have no budget.

That means Im staying in Paris for the time being looking for a job. The current internship pays well, I have enough to support myself for the months to come.

Quote:Something people haven't mentioned, is there a difference in the ease of traveling around Europe from London or Paris, say if I want to go to Amsterdam, Barcelona, Berlin or wherever for a few days on holiday?

Paris hands down. Cheaper tickets and its placed at the heart of Europe.

Quote:London is the best city in the world if you have friends and money.
If you have no friends and no money it's probably the shittest city in the world !

I've heard this too. I can make friends but money wise Im starting at zero, so I guess I'll pass.

When I first arrived in Paris I was a starving student and didnt know anyone except my best Viet friend. Now I've built myself a home here so I guess this city is more poor-tolerant

Post: #17

Kamikaze, regarding your questions :

It is very easy to travel in Europe from both of these countries. On top of the plane, London has the eurostar to france and belgium, paris has the same thing and the Thalys to Amsterdam as well, so something to consider if you're specifically thinking about going there.

Regarding the work hours this is both true and innacurate. The 35h week mostly apply to what we call here 'fonctionnaires', meaning people working for the state or certain public companies. If you're working in the private sector, you'll usually work more than that.

The number of vacation days depends on the job as well, the norm being 5 weeks, but certain jobs like teachers obviously have more than that.

Post: #18

When flying low cost within Europe it's often cheaper and easier to fly to/from London compared to Paris. Sometimes tickets to/from Paris could be quite expensive even for low cost. 'Paris' low cost airport Beauvais is also trickier to get to compared to the equivalent airports of London.

For train travel Paris is obviously generally geographically better located.

Post: #19

The 35h week is a fucking myth. I still dont know how Kaeru managed to get out at 6pm every Friday

Vacation is good here though.

That said, I come in work at 10am so thats fine.

Now that I think about it: one thing about France is that, the smaller French cities seem to beat smaller UK cities in terms of girls. I do not need to stay in Paris, but as long as I find a job in France I can still make it for the citizenship. French provincial girls are more down-to-earth pretty, and all very thin.

Post: #20

I was born and raised in Paris, and I've studied and been working in London for more than a year, so I can provide some good insight.

I agree with a lot of what has been said before. Kaeru's comments are especially spot on.

To answer your questions:

1/ It takes 5 years of work to become UK citizen.

2/ Yes there's a lot of political correctness in the UK and it is annoying. But to be honest I've learned to ignore it and it doesn't bother me too much anymore. The French mainstream ideas and thoughts are more annoying to me. In France, success is frowned upon, leftist ideologies are idealized, etc.

3/ As Kaeru described very well, French girls are undoubtedly prettier than the fat witch-faced British girls. But French and especially Parisian girls are pretentious, close-minded, and getting a ONS with a quality girl in Paris is close to impossible. It is not in the culture.

4/ London is much better for work opportunities and career in general than France. France is an elitist, network-based society where it is hard to break in if you didn't go to the right school, if you don't belong to the right circle. Hard to break in as an outsider. On top of that, French law makes it very hard to get a fulltime job, because the standard fulltime contract, the "CDI", offers so much protection that employers are very reluctant to give you one. Once you got one you have high job security though.
The pay is also a lot higher in London. Yes, living costs are higher there, but it's still better.

I will add a few additional comments:

-London is overall safer than Paris. There are so many sketchy areas in Paris, and many very central parts of Paris are unsafe. The people are also friendlier in London.

-The metro works better in London. In Paris there are strikes regularly, and if you live far from work it is a pain.

-London is a growing, cosmopolitan and multicultural city, whereas Paris is still a very "French" city. You can make friends from anywhere in London, and if you like girls from a particular ethnicity, you can be sure to find some in London, not so in Paris.

-The food and weather are much better in Paris. Even the quality of the products you find your supermarket is much higher in Paris.


Overall, if you have career ambitions, want to live in a fast-paced, multicultural city, and can afford the lifestyle then London is the city where you want to be.

If you can deal with the French attitude (I'm French and I can't), food and weather are important to you, you value holiday over work, Paris is a good choice.

Post: #21

I can also give my opinion about Paris

1. Citizenship. For me, as a Quebecer I think it's not difficult to become citizen and find a job, once I was there I received a few calls for internships and my boss wanted to keep me although it was difficult to get hired by HR (I didn't have a social security number at the time, and I was considering staying with them if I didn't have that other offer back in Canada). There are mutual ententes between France and Quebec for students. I'm also in a very specific domain.

2. Political correctness. People in Paris and France in general are not politically correct.

3. Quality of girls. I didn't find London too bad but Paris had very nice girls..lot of tourists who looked hot, I liked it.

4. Career opportunity. This is where Paris felt unsafe for me, Francis very ''hiéarchique'' and mot people have equal pay n the first few years, getting promotions is difficult and you need to attend the right schools to get an opportunity to climb the work ladder.

5. Living cost. I was scared in Paris because it was really expensive ( the flats).. Condos are anywhere from 800 euros to 1100 euros along line 1.


Have you considered looking in other french cities like Lyon or Toulouse for example? Lyon is is my opinion the perfect city, nice weather, great food, best girls in France and is not too expensive or crowded. It is also very close to the alps.

My office made me an offer equivalent to 36,000 euros a year for 3 months in France the time I could get my social security number..but in Montreal I was gonna get 60,000$ and probaby get a raise much faster than in France. However the project I was working on in France was gonna last until 2035...

I'd say you should stay in France and get your citizenship and look in cities like Lyon/Nice or Toulouse if you cannot find in Paris... London, consider moving only if the pay is really good and you can afford to live there decently.

Post: #22

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I think this will be useful to you too.
Following this: "London is the best city in the world if you have friends and money."

How much per year you have to earn to have a comfortable life and really enjoy what London has to offer? I also have plans to move to London (visa is not an issue in my case), but I was seeing a lot of jobs that wasn't paying much for an entry-level, I was even considering the possibility to join a decent college to find the better opportunities, since the price of colleges isn't that high. From my research, £35k/a would probably be a good starting salary?

I really like the fact that London is a multicutural city and you can find there whatever you want.
Also, it would not be a bad idea work in London for 1-2 year, and eventually ask for Remote.

Post: #23

London is a great place to get flags, nowadays even more of a bragging right than notches.

Post: #24

I feel that this job isn't worth enough for you to leave what you have behind, especially friends that you like + your good LTR. And if you keep onn Grinding for 3 years, you'll be a citizen.+ with all of the messed up articles that I've seen ending in (.uk)... avoid doing it if you can

Post: #25

(05-14-2016 03:10 PM)MrRoundtree Wrote:  I can also give my opinion about Paris

1. Citizenship. For me, as a Quebecer I think it's not difficult to become citizen and find a job, once I was there I received a few calls for internships and my boss wanted to keep me although it was difficult to get hired by HR (I didn't have a social security number at the time, and I was considering staying with them if I didn't have that other offer back in Canada). There are mutual ententes between France and Quebec for students. I'm also in a very specific domain.

2. Political correctness. People in Paris and France in general are not politically correct.

3. Quality of girls. I didn't find London too bad but Paris had very nice girls..lot of tourists who looked hot, I liked it.

4. Career opportunity. This is where Paris felt unsafe for me, Francis very ''hiéarchique'' and mot people have equal pay n the first few years, getting promotions is difficult and you need to attend the right schools to get an opportunity to climb the work ladder.

5. Living cost. I was scared in Paris because it was really expensive ( the flats).. Condos are anywhere from 800 euros to 1100 euros along line 1.


Have you considered looking in other french cities like Lyon or Toulouse for example? Lyon is is my opinion the perfect city, nice weather, great food, best girls in France and is not too expensive or crowded. It is also very close to the alps.

I agree with your post. But, about living costs, note that food and everyday items are not very expensive in Paris, if you buy your food at the places and markets where local people do, like, at the Monoprix or even Carrefour shops for example (ask for the -free- customer cards at these shops, if you plan on staying in France, you'll have some rebates in prices).