Post: #26

^ For many guys, a year of partying in different countries/cultures is the exactly what they need to get out of their system before moving onto the next stage of their lives. I'm at that stage now- finished my degree last year but getting tied down with work for years on end doesn't feel right at the moment when I have enough cash to be on the first plane out of here and experience the world tomorrow. The only reason I'm considering working until the end of the year is to save up as much cash as possible while I'm living at home so I can really build up those "fuck you funds" and leave for a longer period of time come 2017.

Do the gap year. Everything else will still be there when you get back but your youth won't last forever. It's not like you'll be completely unproductive anyway if you're working on online ventures.

Post: #27

Depends, do you have good game and abundance with women? If not I suggest you get the figured out before getting career oriented. Not saying straight up a gap year of nothing but focus on getting better with women as it will free up your mind once you are.

Post: #28

You can do it, but make sure you emerge out the other end with something to show for it THAT CAN GO ON A RESUME. In the US at least, just 'taking a year off' is going to go over very poorly with hiring managers. Travel, start a business, learn a language, but do not get into the mindset that you are 'taking a year off'.

I'd recommend working for a few (two-three) years while building up a fuck-you fund, and while building up an online business. I'll be in a similar situation to you in 2-3 years so do keep us updated.

Post: #29

I really do not get people advising against a gap year.

Because US managers don't like to see it on a resume? Fuck that.

My European experience is that managers even like the idea of a gap year. A year of travelling is accepted here.

Okay you would want to do more than just drinking beer, then do that.

Post: #30

I´m still contemplating what to do with my next years, all I know is it didn´t feel right with what I was studying.

As of now I have some different paths I could take:

1. Work until January, then travel the world until August and pursue a graduate degree. My idea behind this is to then work for 2-3 years on extremely low budget so I can buy an apartment back home, then rent it out as a passive steady income. At the same time I would work on my side business ideas, and with the experience from working it would probably be an easier transition. If anything goes to shit at this point, I could always move back home to my apartment and continue my career where I left off.

2. Pursue another graduate degree this fall, then work for some years and follow the same idea as above. The challenge here is that I am not sure what kind of degree I would like. I´m thinking about either strategic marketing management, which could also benefit me in my side business more directly than what I was previously studying, i.e. finance. I´m also thinking about doing one more year at undergraduate level and become a real estate broker. Not so relevant to my side business, but would take one less year and cost me less in student loan.

3. Just find a job with my current degree which is a bachelor of business administration, and then follow the same path as described above. Upside is I don´t get anymore student loan and I can start working immediately. Downside is that the salary is lower and the type of job would probably not be so interesting.

4. Work until January while setting up an online business which I have no previous experience with, then move to a low cost high quality of life place and continue on my business. The downside with this is that it will probably take years to build up my business to a level where it is somewhat profitable. Also it would probably not be enough profit to buy an apartment as a safety net of some sorts back home. Although I really want to do this, I just think that if everything goes to shit, I will be in my 30´s before I decide to go the traditional way and actually make some decent cash.

I know I have to make the decision myself, but would appreciate any comments and input on my specific situation. Not trying to hijack the thread.

Another issue is of course the pursuit of pussy. Although as a male in my 30´s I would probably don´t face any real problems picking up girls, but I know that my sexual libido is higher now than it will be later, so maybe I would get more personal satisfaction out of traveling right now.

Post: #31

Why is traveling seen in such a different view here in America then in Europe.

Taking a month off seems he norm in Europe while here anything more than a week people will see you as lazy.

How did this begin?

Post: #32

I'm not opposed to a gap year as a hard and fast rule. I'm opposed to a gap year to "find yourself". Do that in your off hours. Your 20s and early 30s should be balls to the wall stacking cash so (ideally) money isn't an issue for the rest of your life. For most people, the first year or two out of school is best spent at a job, because most of us aren't Gates or Zuck.

If you're taking a year "off" (as in, not working a job) to chase a promising business venture, more power to you. If you're taking a year off to travel, bang chicks, and drink... well, it's your life, not mine.

(04-19-2016 11:47 AM)Mentavious Wrote:  Why is traveling seen in such a different view here in America then in Europe.

Taking a month off seems he norm in Europe while here anything more than a week people will see you as lazy.

How did this begin?

Because, as a general rule, Americans work harder than Europeans and pride themselves on it. How it began is a good question that I don't have the answer to.

Post: #33

Honestly, it's probably not worth it. I took a couple years off teaching the SAT abroad which isn't relevant to my future career. The benefit was that I got to increase my notch-count exponentially so that was cool, but now I am paying for it because I am behind other people my age and I am pulling less now as a result.

Work for a few years, build your experience and skills, and THEN take a year off if you still want to.

Post: #34

parents should let go their fears, Harvard endorses it, and it's not a break in your education but a part of it says NYTimes today:

http://nyti.ms/1pdFVqm


For the German speakers, a quote that cannot be easily translated (sorry about that):
"Sie haben da eine Lücke in Ihrem Lebenslauf."
"Ja ich weiss, da habe ich gelebt." P.B.

Post: #35

(04-19-2016 11:47 AM)Mentavious Wrote:  Why is traveling seen in such a different view here in America then in Europe.

Taking a month off seems he norm in Europe while here anything more than a week people will see you as lazy.

How did this begin?

Speaking as someone who has lived/worked in both the US and Europe I think a large part of it is down to European governments mandating a legal minimum amount of holidays to take. Across most of Europe every employee legally has to take approx 30 working days of leave a year - 6 full weeks off. Everyone legally has to take these, so nobody gets judged for taking them at promotion/contract renewal time.

In the US if you're lucky enough to work for a company that gives you an "optional" 10-20 days leave you'll still be judged for taking them, since nobody is forcing you to. People who take their days are often regarded as lazy/not-dedicated, come promotion time.

This attitude then filters down across all levels of society to more of an appreciation for travel and time-off (or the opposite). Look at the multiple Americans in this thread talking about the OP's career will be ruined if he takes a year off in his early 20s, before he commits to a likely 40+ years of work. In contrast, look at how its normal/expected in Europe. I've personally worked for multiple large successful multinational-corporations in Europe that prefer applicants to have taken 12-24 months 'off' in their 20s to find themselves/travel etc as they believed it made you a more well rounded human being.

It's an awful shame really. I really like both America & Americans, and both would be significantly improved if more of the population traveled internationally extensively.

Post: #36

(04-20-2016 10:20 AM)zatara Wrote:  

(04-19-2016 11:47 AM)Mentavious Wrote:  Why is traveling seen in such a different view here in America then in Europe.

Taking a month off seems he norm in Europe while here anything more than a week people will see you as lazy.

How did this begin?

Speaking as someone who has lived/worked in both the US and Europe I think a large part of it is down to European governments mandating a legal minimum amount of holidays to take. Across most of Europe every employee legally has to take approx 30 working days of leave a year - 6 full weeks off. Everyone legally has to take these, so nobody gets judged for taking them at promotion/contract renewal time.

In the US if you're lucky enough to work for a company that gives you an "optional" 10-20 days leave you'll still be judged for taking them, since nobody is forcing you to. People who take their days are often regarded as lazy/not-dedicated, come promotion time.

This attitude then filters down across all levels of society to more of an appreciation for travel and time-off (or the opposite). Look at the multiple Americans in this thread talking about the OP's career will be ruined if he takes a year off in his early 20s, before he commits to a likely 40+ years of work. In contrast, look at how its normal/expected in Europe. I've personally worked for multiple large successful multinational-corporations in Europe that prefer applicants to have taken 12-24 months 'off' in their 20s to find themselves/travel etc as they believed it made you a more well rounded human being.

It's an awful shame really. I really like both America & Americans, and both would be significantly improved if more of the population traveled internationally extensively.

Spot on. I think Australians follow the European style, more than the American style when it comes to holidays. Hell, we may even be lazier than the Europeans.

It also comes down to America being a materialistic society where everyone wants to work their whole lives to try and impress people they don't even like with their big house, sports cars and other materialistic possessions. The US is labelled "The land of opportunity" and I think a lot of Americans feel guilty if they're going on holiday all the time and not taking advantage of that. Americans also live in their own little bubble and don't care much for the rest of the world due to the mindset drummed in by their media that they're the best country in the world and have everything and more that the rest of the world combined could offer. Why travel to Asia for beaches when we have Miami and California? Why travel to experience different foods when you can find cuisine from all around the world in New York City? Why go to Berlin or Budapest for night clubs when we have Las Vegas, the biggest rave on planet Earth? We have Hollywood, the biggest sports leagues in the world and the top rated colleges in existence. Where else could possibly beat that? In a way, they're correct, but they don't seem to grasp the concept of history, unique cultural experiences, and most of the men don't realise how tough they're doing it there. More travelling would open their eyes to these things.

Post: #37

In a way, Europe is so dense and it's so easy to travel anywhere within it that the 6 weeks vacations help promote tourist inside the countries, which itself is important for the touristic regions. For example, South of France is poor but survive economically thanks to the tourism industry. With the 5 weeks of vacation in France a lot of money is being spent outside Paris and its good for the economy.

A better comparison would be countries such as Korea, China, Russia and Japan to USA.

Even in Canada getting 3 weeks of vacation is luxury and sadly the government doesn't promote tourist inside Quebec for example, so i'm sorry but I would probably never go to Gaspesie/ Newfoundland or New Brunswick in my life as I know (and experienced much better places in the world). With a few extra days or weeks it would allow me to visit these places and they wouldn't be so poor right now.

I did a semi-gap year last year as I studies in France and finished my Masters there. I say it is worth it if you have something to show on your resume.

Post: #38

Take an exchange program. That way, you can use it on your degree and resume without seeming like you were wasting your time.

Post: #39

(04-20-2016 10:20 AM)zatara Wrote:  

(04-19-2016 11:47 AM)Mentavious Wrote:  Why is traveling seen in such a different view here in America then in Europe.

Taking a month off seems he norm in Europe while here anything more than a week people will see you as lazy.

How did this begin?

Speaking as someone who has lived/worked in both the US and Europe I think a large part of it is down to European governments mandating a legal minimum amount of holidays to take. Across most of Europe every employee legally has to take approx 30 working days of leave a year - 6 full weeks off. Everyone legally has to take these, so nobody gets judged for taking them at promotion/contract renewal time.

In the US if you're lucky enough to work for a company that gives you an "optional" 10-20 days leave you'll still be judged for taking them, since nobody is forcing you to. People who take their days are often regarded as lazy/not-dedicated, come promotion time.

This attitude then filters down across all levels of society to more of an appreciation for travel and time-off (or the opposite). Look at the multiple Americans in this thread talking about the OP's career will be ruined if he takes a year off in his early 20s, before he commits to a likely 40+ years of work. In contrast, look at how its normal/expected in Europe. I've personally worked for multiple large successful multinational-corporations in Europe that prefer applicants to have taken 12-24 months 'off' in their 20s to find themselves/travel etc as they believed it made you a more well rounded human being.

It's an awful shame really. I really like both America & Americans, and both would be significantly improved if more of the population traveled internationally extensively.

Flying internationally out of America is expensive and you can only do it in a few select cities. America as a whole has pretty much every biome possible from the tropics, to woodlands, to bustling cities, and all sorts of fun in between. Americans never need to leave the country to enjoy a change of scenery.

And while i'm willing to agree that US unemployment stats tend to be bunk, this graph even with the off data proves inconclusively that Europeans have a higher unemployment for a reason:


Let us not forget that youth unemployment in certain european countries is 50%.

Post: #40

(04-21-2016 05:12 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Flying internationally out of America is expensive and you can only do it in a few select cities. America as a whole has pretty much every biome possible from the tropics, to woodlands, to bustling cities, and all sorts of fun in between. Americans never need to leave the country to enjoy a change of scenery.

And while i'm willing to agree that US unemployment stats tend to be bunk, this graph even with the off data proves inconclusively that Europeans have a higher unemployment for a reason:

The U.S. has 90 international airports[1] currently, so that's not really a valid concern. The lack of time-off/travel appreciation culture is rather more of a hindrance to international travel for Americans than availability/price of flights.

I'm not really sure what the point of your unemployment discussion is - it seems you're a bit defensive about America. I don't think anyone here was arguing whether the US or European/Australian etc economic system is better. Most people who've lived in both will agree there are pluses and minuses to both. The discussion of holiday days here was in relation to providing an explanation as to why it is Americans (in this thread and in general) are so anti 'gap year'.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_in...ted_States

Post: #41

(04-21-2016 05:36 AM)zatara Wrote:  

(04-21-2016 05:12 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Flying internationally out of America is expensive and you can only do it in a few select cities. America as a whole has pretty much every biome possible from the tropics, to woodlands, to bustling cities, and all sorts of fun in between. Americans never need to leave the country to enjoy a change of scenery.

And while i'm willing to agree that US unemployment stats tend to be bunk, this graph even with the off data proves inconclusively that Europeans have a higher unemployment for a reason:

The U.S. has 90 international airports[1] currently, so that's not really a valid concern. The lack of time-off/travel appreciation culture is rather more of a hindrance to international travel for Americans than availability/price of flights.

I'm not really sure what the point of your unemployment discussion is - it seems you're a bit defensive about America. I don't think anyone here was arguing whether the US or European/Australian etc economic system is better. Most people who've lived in both will agree there are pluses and minuses to both. The discussion of holiday days here was in relation to providing an explanation as to why it is Americans (in this thread and in general) are so anti 'gap year'.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_in...ted_States

Not in a million years. Most Americans yearn for the opportunity to travel to Europe. There is a huge appreciation for foreign culture.

Ninety international airports mean jack diddly when you have to constantly connect at other lesser airports. When I have to fly back to my flyover state it's almost ten solid hours of flying from the UK to some eastern seaboard city like JFK or Logan before I end up landing in the midwest. The cost for this ticket is around $750 one way if I book it in advance. Round trip that's a lot of money. Flying around in Europe and even the Mediterranean basin costs pennies.

And second, just because an airport has the "international" designation doesn't mean it's going to fly anywhere worth going. A prime example of this is this airport: http://www.buffaloairport.com/Flight/fly.aspx two seasonal flights to Puerto Rico and Cancun? I betcha the ticket costs of those flights will be the nearly the same amount to fly to Europe. Don't forget, America is a massive land mass compared to Europe.

The point I was making was in my initial quote. European unemployment is higher because Europeans demand more time off and think it's culturally acceptable to have month long spans of goofing off. Businesses have shown that they don't want to have to support employees finding themselves, hence why the zone is broke and its people unemployed.

Moral of the story: people who take gap years end up having no money and experience to show for it. But what do I know, I started working immediately after I graduated college.

Post: #42

Eurozone isn't broke due to people taking gap years, it's a more complex problem, basically EU countries gave up their monetary sovereignty and can't afford any kind of public spending without European Commission approvation, they have to respect the Maastricht Treaty which is the assassination of economic development and creation of jobs opportunities

Countries like mine,Greece,Spain and Portugal should do something to kick out the power of ECB and EC, go back to their sovereign currencies and execute an economic policy for public purpose (ie Modern Money Theory)

Unfortunately the mainstream thinking regarding economic policy in Europe is entirely controlled by technocrats who run think tanks,hedge funds,ECB, central banks,etc

Post: #43

(04-21-2016 05:55 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Ninety international airports mean jack diddly when you have to constantly connect at other lesser airports. When I have to fly back to my flyover state it's almost ten solid hours of flying from the UK to some eastern seaboard city like JFK or Logan before I end up landing in the midwest. The cost for this ticket is around $750 one way if I book it in advance. Round trip that's a lot of money. Flying around in Europe and even the Mediterranean basin costs pennies.

And second, just because an airport has the "international" designation doesn't mean it's going to fly anywhere worth going. A prime example of this is this airport: http://www.buffaloairport.com/Flight/fly.aspx two seasonal flights to Puerto Rico and Cancun? I betcha the ticket costs of those flights will be the nearly the same amount to fly to Europe. Don't forget, America is a massive land mass compared to Europe.

The US is not really geographically isolated in terms of travel to international destinations either, though. Australians and New Zealanders have similar standards of living to the US but far longer to travel to reach their nearest international neighbours, and pay far more for flight costs than Americans do. Yet the rates of passport ownership and international travel are far higher in both of these countries than in the U.S. Which would imply the casual factor in American's lack of travel is not geographical.

Quote:The point I was making was in my initial quote. European unemployment is higher because Europeans demand more time off and think it's culturally acceptable to have month long spans of goofing off. Businesses have shown that they don't want to have to support employees finding themselves, hence why the zone is broke and its people unemployed.

Northern Europe (Scandinavia, Germany, the UK, the Netherlands etc) has comparable income (higher in some cases) and unemployment levels to the US. Yet all of the countries still maintain 30 days+ a year of holiday leave. Conflating holiday leave with economic problems is a false correlation. The broken southern European economies have far more serious problems than holiday leave legislation.

Quote:Moral of the story: people who take gap years end up having no money and experience to show for it.

This is...an extremely closed minded view. Do you personally know anyone who has actually taken a gap year and either set up their own business or traveled extensively in the developing world? For middle class British, Australian, Irish etc people its a default part of life, a huge number of people take a year off either before or after uni. If they were all becoming unemployable wasters immediately afterwards it wouldn't be quite so commonplace and socially encouraged.

Post: #44

(04-21-2016 09:29 AM)zatara Wrote:  

(04-21-2016 05:55 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Ninety international airports mean jack diddly when you have to constantly connect at other lesser airports. When I have to fly back to my flyover state it's almost ten solid hours of flying from the UK to some eastern seaboard city like JFK or Logan before I end up landing in the midwest. The cost for this ticket is around $750 one way if I book it in advance. Round trip that's a lot of money. Flying around in Europe and even the Mediterranean basin costs pennies.

And second, just because an airport has the "international" designation doesn't mean it's going to fly anywhere worth going. A prime example of this is this airport: http://www.buffaloairport.com/Flight/fly.aspx two seasonal flights to Puerto Rico and Cancun? I betcha the ticket costs of those flights will be the nearly the same amount to fly to Europe. Don't forget, America is a massive land mass compared to Europe.

The US is not really geographically isolated in terms of travel to international destinations either, though. Australians and New Zealanders have similar standards of living to the US but far longer to travel to reach their nearest international neighbours, and pay far more for flight costs than Americans do. Yet the rates of passport ownership and international travel are far higher in both of these countries than in the U.S. Which would imply the casual factor in American's lack of travel is not geographical.

As I said previously , Americans don't need to travel internationally when you have such geographically diverse places like New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, skiing in Colorado, New Orleans, the American southwest, heck you even have the Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico. All while not having to go through the annoyance of passport control.

Most don't see the point in going abroad and to be honest outside of foreign women there isn't much Europe offers overtop of America beyond history.

As for cultural charm, maybe it is just me but I don't see it in Europe. The majority of Europeans come off as liberal Americans with funny accents/different languages considering all of the westernized attitudes and behaviors.

(04-21-2016 09:29 AM)zatara Wrote:  

Quote:The point I was making was in my initial quote. European unemployment is higher because Europeans demand more time off and think it's culturally acceptable to have month long spans of goofing off. Businesses have shown that they don't want to have to support employees finding themselves, hence why the zone is broke and its people unemployed.

Northern Europe (Scandinavia, Germany, the UK, the Netherlands etc) has comparable income (higher in some cases) and unemployment levels to the US. Yet all of the countries still maintain 30 days+ a year of holiday leave. Conflating holiday leave with economic problems is a false correlation. The broken southern European economies have far more serious problems than holiday leave legislation.

I'll be bluntly honest: I don't see European vacation packages lasting much longer in this day and age. Part of my job is helping roll out a software package that will make it easier to offshore our development from said northern European countries to places like China and India. After seeing how much time people take off, I don't blame them.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

(04-21-2016 09:29 AM)zatara Wrote:  

Quote:Moral of the story: people who take gap years end up having no money and experience to show for it.

This is...an extremely closed minded view. Do you personally know anyone who has actually taken a gap year and either set up their own business or traveled extensively in the developing world? For middle class British, Australian, Irish etc people its a default part of life, a huge number of people take a year off either before or after uni. If they were all becoming unemployable wasters immediately afterwards it wouldn't be quite so commonplace and socially encouraged.

My opinion is based off of three guys I know who did just that and don't have anything to show for it:

1. Irish guy: took a year off to travel around America on a j1 visa after his undergrad. Once he finished he went to graduate school and now makes the same amount of money I do . Arguably doing the best albeit he is drowning in student loan payments from not paying any off (i'm stacking cash instead).

2. Australian guy: Went to law school and ended up becoming a lawyer. Worked for a few years in Melbourne and then decided to take a gap year. That single year became two and now he is in rehab after a crazy stint he did in Thailand or Malaysia I'll have to ask him.

3. Canadian guy: Dad gave him $10k after graduation. He ended up going to Costa Rica to learn Spanish. Went home after 6 months to live with his parents after acquiring a white nose and barely passable Spanish.

Anecdotal experience be damned, but this is all I have to go off of. All three dudes have crazy stories to tell and the time off certainly added to their wealth of life experiences. However talk is cheap and they're paying for that time off in other ways.

I love being proven wrong so OP if you have a plan to start a business or do something actually useful do it. If you want to take a year long vacation, know you'll be hampered in other ways.

Post: #45

The thing which is really telling is that some companys in Germany actually promote their vacancies with the possibility of taking a sabbatical.

Just one story:
Acquaintance of mine was a working student at company abc. He finished his master degree and company abc wanted him to stay and he said that it would only work if he could make his journey around the world (a year roughly) with his girlfriend first. End of the story: He's still at company abc.

This is how it goes here.

Post: #46

(04-21-2016 11:22 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Americans don't need to travel internationally when you have such geographically diverse places like New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, skiing in Colorado, New Orleans, the American southwest, heck you even have the Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico. All while not having to go through the annoyance of passport control.

Most don't see the point in going abroad and to be honest outside of foreign women there isn't much Europe offers overtop of America beyond history.

So you're now saying Americans don't need/want to travel internationally...but in your post 5 hours ago you said, and I quote: "Most Americans yearn for the opportunity to travel to Europe. There is a huge appreciation for foreign culture."[1] That's a slight disparity of opinion...

Quote:My opinion is based off of three guys I know who did just that and don't have anything to show for it:

1. Irish guy:
2. Australian guy:
3. Canadian guy:

Anecdotal experience be damned, but this is all I have to go off of. All three dudes have crazy stories to tell and the time off certainly added to their wealth of life experiences. However talk is cheap and they're paying for that time off in other ways.

I'm going to be honest; all 3 of those sound like pretty damn good uses of 6-12 months in someones early 20s to me. Presuming your Aussie mate sorts himself out after rehab and gets back into legal practice all 3 of those guys will be making plenty of cash in their careers at 30 or 40 years old. And all 3 will likely never have a similar opportunity to spend 10k on 6 months in Costa Rica doing coke, fucking girls and learning Spanish. Memories like that are priceless when you're in your 40s and married with kids living in the suburbs.

Basically, I think when someone is 80 years old they're highly unlikely to look back on the above hi-jinks (or similar) and go "jeese I regret not spending those 12 months in an office when I was 24". I think they're far more likely to go "those are some crazy memories, I'm glad I did that before settling down". If someone is academically well qualified and intelligent they're going to stack cash and be a financial success in their life anyway, starting their career at 24 instead of 23 doesn't make a huge difference.

My own anecdotal experience involves myself and most of my high school/college peer-groups going either undergrad > grad school > gap year > career or else undergrad > grad school > 2-4 years getting professional qualification (legal/accounting etc) > gap year > career. I don't know a single person who's come back and struggled to find a job because of the gap year, or a single person who's regretted the life experiences. I'm in my late 20s now and the only people I know who have regrets about gap years are the people who didn't take them at the time they could have, and now can't due to being in long term relationships, having mortgages, being now running their own businesses so unable to take long-term time off, etc. Its a small window in most people's early/mid 20s that they're likely to have that magical combination of disposable income and no long-term financial/relationship/career obligations in their home country.

[1]/thread-55183-post-1282405.html#pid1282405

Post: #47

I recommend you take a year off.

As others have stated, a year off to travel the world is extremely common in Europe. Employers will like the idea and will be keen to hear about your experiences.
You can impress employers even more if you tell them you did some volunteering while abroad (teaching English to orphans, building houses for homeless, coaching football to down syndrome kids etc).

I did it and I know others who have done it. It is a wonderful experience and not something you can do once you have a wife and kids (should you go down that route).


The only thing I recommend against is taking a year off and staying with your parents. I know people who did this and they achieved absolutely nothing in the time. These guys lost a year of their life.
People who take a year off to travel have a life changing experience.

Post: #48

I have no experience from the American corporate world, but in my country most people do a gap year of some sorts in their early 20s. Be it work&travel down under, being a tourist guide, language studies, volunteer work or just travel, and I honestly never heard anyone facing a problem due to this when they are starting their career.

And honestly, too many Americans think of Europe just as a single entity. There are HUGE differences inside Europe on every aspect from cultural, social and economical. To start a discussion about employment rates and vacation laws are beyond the scope of this thread though.

In the end, you have to make that decision yourself and own it once you do. I'm in a similar situation myself and been thinking hard about this the last week and I'll probably opt for no gap year and just do a graduate program. I regret not traveling more in my earl 20s, but I've got other experience from blue collar jobs and the military before starting my undergrad. Now I feel I should do a postgrad, then grind for some years to pay back debt and invest in an apartment. Since I am aiming for a career in one of the big consulting or auditing firms there are definitely possibilities to work abroad there as well. The good thing then is that I will still receive a salary as if I was working in my home country, and I can rent out my apartment at the same time. I've learned a lot from this forum and I realised I should opt for money over bitches now. If I do this and work hard, I might be able to set up my own shop in my mid 30s and having passive income from my apartment back home while I move abroad to cheaper countries. I think this is better in my situation rather than saving money for a gap year, then use that money to travel instead of investing it for future financial independence/security.

Besides, I can still fuck bitches here while I'm pursuing this. The girls will still be there in SA and SEA when that time comes, and I will a much better lifestyle due to my grinding.

Post: #49

(04-21-2016 02:29 PM)zatara Wrote:  

(04-21-2016 11:22 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Americans don't need to travel internationally when you have such geographically diverse places like New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, skiing in Colorado, New Orleans, the American southwest, heck you even have the Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico. All while not having to go through the annoyance of passport control.

Most don't see the point in going abroad and to be honest outside of foreign women there isn't much Europe offers overtop of America beyond history.

So you're now saying Americans don't need/want to travel internationally...but in your post 5 hours ago you said, and I quote: "Most Americans yearn for the opportunity to travel to Europe. There is a huge appreciation for foreign culture."[1] That's a slight disparity of opinion...

Sorry I should have been more clear on this. It's hard to explain this American cultural phenomena. It's a mixture of laziness, fear, and awe. They want to travel to Europe, but the fear of foreign languages and slight differences to routine and recognizable products make it nerve racking. For most Americans, when they do a trip to Europe it is done through an organized tour group where every aspect of the trip is set up from hotels, meals, sights, and finally to people they get to meet.

Chalk it up to fear of the unknown, but Americans would love to travel and see Europe if it meant that they only had to show up and observe it from the safety of an armchair. Most don't do or like the "lonely planet" experience, they want a Disney World experience where the fun has been laid out and planned already. Trips like that to Europe are really expensive.

So yeah you're probably right.

(04-21-2016 02:29 PM)zatara Wrote:  

Quote:My opinion is based off of three guys I know who did just that and don't have anything to show for it:

1. Irish guy:
2. Australian guy:
3. Canadian guy:

Anecdotal experience be damned, but this is all I have to go off of. All three dudes have crazy stories to tell and the time off certainly added to their wealth of life experiences. However talk is cheap and they're paying for that time off in other ways.

I'm going to be honest; all 3 of those sound like pretty damn good uses of 6-12 months in someones early 20s to me. Presuming your Aussie mate sorts himself out after rehab and gets back into legal practice all 3 of those guys will be making plenty of cash in their careers at 30 or 40 years old. And all 3 will likely never have a similar opportunity to spend 10k on 6 months in Costa Rica doing coke, fucking girls and learning Spanish. Memories like that are priceless when you're in your 40s and married with kids living in the suburbs.

Basically, I think when someone is 80 years old they're highly unlikely to look back on the above hi-jinks (or similar) and go "jeese I regret not spending those 12 months in an office when I was 24". I think they're far more likely to go "those are some crazy memories, I'm glad I did that before settling down". If someone is academically well qualified and intelligent they're going to stack cash and be a financial success in their life anyway, starting their career at 24 instead of 23 doesn't make a huge difference.

My own anecdotal experience involves myself and most of my high school/college peer-groups going either undergrad > grad school > gap year > career or else undergrad > grad school > 2-4 years getting professional qualification (legal/accounting etc) > gap year > career. I don't know a single person who's come back and struggled to find a job because of the gap year, or a single person who's regretted the life experiences. I'm in my late 20s now and the only people I know who have regrets about gap years are the people who didn't take them at the time they could have, and now can't due to being in long term relationships, having mortgages, being now running their own businesses so unable to take long-term time off, etc. Its a small window in most people's early/mid 20s that they're likely to have that magical combination of disposable income and no long-term financial/relationship/career obligations in their home country.

[1]/thread-55183-post-1282405.html#pid1282405

What do you guys do in college then? My four years of college were spent drinking, doing all sorts of weird drugs, and banging an endless amounts of women. Almost all of my notches came from easy college sluts. College in America is a giant party especially if you go to a town in a very "blue" city. My junior year I lived in Los Angeles and continued the partying. That was actually a lot of fun, glad I did that but overall the experience was sort of meh. Why take a gap year to do more of the same?

To be honest, I don't look back fondly on those experiences. In fact, I shudder at the thought of reliving those nightmarish days. I wasted time and a lot of money on dead end behaviors that hampered my ability to grow into an adult. It's also one of the reasons I stepped back into the Christian faith and do my best to practice what it preaches. Tis the folly of youth.

The point I guess i'm trying to make is this: there are people out there who because of their connections and activities made in school are ahead because of certain opportunities they took advantage of faster than others. After undergrad I ended up landing a job because of part time work I did in college. This job paid really well and was considered mid level while all of my classmates were doing "entry level" , part time work, or worse had to go to graduate school because they didn't have any relevant to employers.

That first job got me a promotion and a new role in the UK ( with a sponsored visa and relocation package!). I'm 26 and have had some unheard of career experiences because of the hustling I did. Had I goofed off and spent an extra year discovering myself I wouldn't be where I am today.

TL;DR take a gap year at your peril.

Post: #50

If you can afford living on your own for a year, take a gap year and move to a foreign country where:

- cost of living is low
- it is possible to become somewhat fluent in the local language within a year of seriously studying it
- internet speed is good enough to work on your business
- you can meet other ambitious people with similar goals
- you can game feminine women

When you return to the US after a year you:

- have made plenty of experiences in a completely new country without relying on someone else. That alone is priceless and something most people don't even have the balls for.
- are able to speak a new language. That can work as your excuse to have taken a year off and gives you a lot more freedom in your future career and personal life
- know a couple of interesting people who might lead you to new career opportunities
- have started a new business. Maybe it is successful and will supply you with a nice passive income. Maybe everything went to shit. But even then it was good because you can learn from that mistakes and not make them again when you start your second business. Again, most people don't have the balls to do that.
- have had a lot of fun with beautiful women

I took a semester off after my first university year to travel for 6 months in Asia. It was a great time and eye opening (especially because I found this forum) but I wasn't productive at all. In hindsight I would have rather stayed for 6 months in one place to learn the language and work on some kind of online business. But I am still glad that I did it because it changed my mindset and led to many other decisions that were good for my life. I wouldn't be the same person I am now had I not done that 6 month trip 2 years ago.