Post: #26

slubu,

I'm going to take you at your word that you are talking about a true 9, the kind of girl that all sorts of people, men, women and the old and infirm will stop in the street to stare at; the kind that you virtually never see at random, unless you are a photographer who works with supermodels (and maybe not even then).

Assuming that is the case: there are two stages. The first is just getting your foot in the door. No amount of game can really get you that -- you simply need to have access by virtue of social status, money, fame, or some other circumstance. And of course you need to be a plausible candidate for such a girl in terms of age, looks, and social skills (unless your status or fame are such that they can obviate the need for that).

Based on what you say, I'll further assume that you're past that stage, meaning that one way or another you have your foot in the door; you can talk to the girl, take her out etc. So now you're at the next stage.

At this stage, your only strategy -- if it can be called a strategy -- is simply passion, persistence, and willpower. You have to go after the girl hard; this is not the context in which you can pretend that you can just take it or leave it, that will get you nowhere. Concentrate on this girl, and flatter and compliment her, but in a way that is passionate, detailed and memorable. Your main chance is to sweep her off her feet with the strength, persistence, and intensity of your desire for her, and you should always articulate this desire both in words and actions. It will help if you truly feel that desire to that degree of intensity; if you do at all, you should cultivate it and sharpen it as much as possible.

Don't worry about the usual rules of game too much; don't worry about being "try-hard"; don't worry about keeping your communications brief; don't worry about overdoing it. Beautiful women are always secretly bored, and men in their company tend to become even duller and more reserved than they always are; they are cowed into a glum silence. If you cannot win a girl like that merely by virtue of power or fame, your main -- probably only -- chance will come from persistent and articulate passion that will entrance her and break down her resistance. Not that this guarantees success in such a case -- and failure if you've come close can be exceptionally bitter, so keep that in mind. But it's the best possible approach.

Post: #27

(11-25-2015 06:40 PM)XXL Wrote:  You can't treat them all the same cause different girls live in different realities and respond to different things. I also don't agree with mike cf cause good solid game actually repulse regular girls, not gets them. And third point makes no sense to me.

I can write how to HANDLE very attractive girls as a regular guy if anyone wants though.

Agreed

and Please do.

WIA

Post: #28

First of all, 9's are indeed very rare. Even among experienced players, I would be very suspicious of any man who said he had pulled a lot of 9's. I would suspect that either his rating scale is massively inflated or he's flat out lying. A 9, properly defined, is a world class beauty. Unless you're moving in elite circles and/or living in one of a handful of cities in the world, it's very rare to even see these women, much less have an opportunity to game them, much less still to successfully bang/date them. I say all this to point out the fact that it's very difficult to nail down a set of iron-clad rules for gaming 9's, simply because the data set we have to work with is so small. I have only pulled a single legit 9, and interacted personally with just a few. That being the case, the following observations are as equally theoretical/speculative as they are experiential.

1) These women tend to be more intelligent than 7's and 8's. Beauty is correlated with intelligence, and the genetic quality of 9's is not just skin deep. This doesn't mean they're intellectual and shouldn't be treated as such (don't get philosophical with them or try to impress them with your brains, which should go without saying), but they will respond positively to game that is a step above your typical dumbed-down banter you'd run on more standard-looking women.

2) They are very practiced at quickly uncovering incongruent behavior in men. In other words, they can sniff out a "fake alpha" much more easily than your typical 7 or 8. Why? Because they get it all the time. Every guy they've interacted with since puberty was desperately trying to make himself look as good as possible, which usually results in him coming across as either too reserved and boring or too boisterous and clownish. They learn to smell the bullshit better than most women. What does this mean? 9's respond much better to a genuine, low-key vibe, a quiet confidence. It's refreshing to them.

3) They have no respect for men who compliment their looks (the vast majority). They live with themselves 24/7. They pop pimples and take shits, and spend a lot of time putting on makeup to look they way they do. They understand they are human beings and not goddesses, so when most men fall all over themselves to praise their beauty they find it somewhat annoying (although they obviously would not give up the power of their beauty). Never flatter a beautiful woman based on her looks. You're much better off trying to form some kind of mental/emotional/psychological/spiritual connection. Don't go the opposite direction and start gushing over how smart she is, but appealing to her sense of "depth" rather than praising her surface appearance is the way to go.

4) They are lonelier than you would think. They know their value and aren't quick to go slumming around with lower value men, and usually won't even hang out with unattractive women. They have to deal with an everyday reality that is totally alien for most people: imagine every member of the opposite sex is drooling over you, while every member of your own sex harbors emotions somewhere between jealousy and outright hatred toward you. That is the life of the 9. They usually have a handful of friends who are 7-8s (maybe a couple other 9s depending on the city) and keep a few alpha orbiters. Yes, alpha orbiters. 9's do not have beta orbiters for the most part. They are easily able to keep alpha males in orbit and tend to use them for lifestyle perks more than sex (i.e. free drinks, upscale party invites, drugs, vacations, boat/yacht days, etc...). What does this mean? Simply that if you can successfully get inside her head by appealing to her "depth" as mentioned above, you actually won't be dealing with much interference from other men. At that point you will have pierced her defensive outer ring and will have access to her inner circle, which as I said is surprisingly lonely.

5) They are highly sexual, but slower to show it than less attractive women. They know the power of their sexuality and are better at controlling it than most women are. If you can establish comfort, however, you can physically escalate with them like you would any other girl.

6) Lizard makes a good point about passion and intensity. Remember, most of the men she's used to dealing with come across as fake and incongruent because they're trying so hard to impress her. And on the other hand, it's very likely she also knows several legitimate alphas of different stripes. The easiest way to set yourself apart from the horde of fake alphas and her genuine alpha orbiters is to make an extremely strong emotional impression on her, one that clearly makes her place you in a different camp from the rest of the men who aren't able to elicit a strong emotional response from her. This is, of course, easier said than done, and the precise method of eliciting this type of emotional response would obviously vary individually with each girl.

The more I think about this topic, though, the more it just strikes me as mental masturbation. There's really no practical purpose to putting together a guide to gaming 9's. They're just so rare. If you want to fuck 9's you're honestly probably better off stacking as much cash as possible and hiring ultra-high end escorts. Otherwise, I think it's simply a matter of luck, proximity and somehow being able to make an immediate emotional connection when the opportunity presents itself. Definitely not something any man can pull off with reliable frequency. To even encounter a 9 in real life should be properly considered a gift of the universe and should be enough to easily make one's day or even week. To successfully game and fuck a 9 without throwing gobs of cash at her is literally nothing less than a total lifetime highlight. It's the sort of thing you will always remember with pride, satisfaction and no small hint of wonder.

Oh, and it should probably go without saying, but all this presupposes otherwise nailed down game and general lifestyle. If you aren't fit, attractive, confident and otherwise engaging and well-put together, you've got no shot. You will be politely brushed off and she won't even remember your existence five minutes later. And that's if you aren't immediately AMOGed away by surrounding white knights who notice the 9's slight discomfort at your presence and want to save her from you. 9's are big game animals. Don't come at them with a pea shooter.

Post: #29

What a shame pamplonabull got banned before he could chime in, dude got two 9s a month no problems, two a week while overseas.

/thread-51646.html

I hear he took on 30 white knights at the club once too..

Post: #30

I don't know about 9s since it's hard to define what that is, but I know one guy who's banging top tier girls(i.e legit models) and consistently.

It pretty much comes down to being in the top 1% looks wise(I.e be very ripped), have a good amount of social media social proof, and good game(not to mention cash to throw around for logistics).

All of that is achievable for any normal man if you know how. In 4 years I hope to be at that level.

Post: #31

(11-25-2015 10:53 AM)slubu Wrote:  When I say this, I mean more objectively than subjectively. For example, strangers go out of the way to tell you how hot she is. Not your buddies, not your buddies' girlfriends, not your family. People you have never met feel it is necessary to make their first words to you a stated obvious of her aesthetics.

I pretty much disagree with everything else written on this topic so far, except for XXL. Halo Effect is real strong in this topic, as is the "rational actor" concept.

WIA

Post: #32

And I'm real curious about you guys who've run game in Russia/Ukraine, which seems to be the paradigm of white beauty.

WIA

Post: #33

Opening this thread like:

Post: #34

Slubu, great breakdown of a complex game theory.

It makes sense to define a 9 by how special she's treated by the rest of the world; popular beauty.

But as mentioned by others here, a 9 is more a product of her status relative to her environment, rather than an individual boner test.


9 Enviroment;

A 9 is the hottest girl in her environment. There's 1 in every big school, and 1 in every big company. They're on the Hollywood A-List, and in community college. In any large self contained social bubble, there is always a 9, and everyone knows who she is. Everyone.

...but if a 9 stays at home and doesn't dress up, does she make a sound? Or rather, is she still a 9?

For such 9's, who simply go to class, and maybe a part time job, sure she gets special treatment, but not on the level of 9's who are social stars, or actively dating, clubbing, modeling, etc. in tier 1 cities.

Most girls with 9 looks do not participate in the activities referenced in this thread (jet setting, partying, drugs). And the more beautiful she is, the more friends & family guardians that will be surrounding her any time she's in public.

How to game? Take her out of her 9 environment. Tell her to turn off the phone. Take her somewhere. Go in the ocean. Go hiking. Take her for a drive through the desert. Anything that gets her out of the bubble that bestows her 9 power. You'll be on more equal footing.


9 Status;

Katy Perry, who most people would call a 9, was just another Hollywood club girl trying to make it in the entertainment biz before she made it big. She was still a 9 in looks, but her status amidst the club promoters, successful performers, models, etc. she was just another commodity. Imagine how many loser musicians ran through her during this time. But now that she's at the apex of her industry food chain, the status of the men she dates has gone up accordingly.

Compare this to a 9 looks college intern, working 2 days a week unpaid at her first company. On the corporate totem pole, she's lowest of the low. Every man working there will make a play. He has status advantage. And every woman will hate her.

How to game? Exceed her status. Or lower hers.


9 Entitlement;

A 9 knows she's hot. She behaves accordingly.

But subtract that lifetime of special treatment, and she'd have those same 9 looks, with a more humble character.

How to game? Target Asian FOB's, LA midwestern hopefulls with stars in their eyes, and Eastern European NYC imports. 9's of this variety are prized for good reason; lack of entitlement, when compared to vets.


9 to you;

Now take away all of these social constructs. What are you left with?

A boner test? Good for sexual compatibility, sure. But do you actually enjoy her company? Does she make you laugh? If she had no vagina, would you still want to kick it over a few drinks, because you enjoy the intellectual stimulation?


Enough theory. The best way to handle a 9; Bring your A game. Let the cards fall where they may. Say what you need to say to get the bang. And when she calls things off for the bigger better deal, smile. The endless active game and mate guarding is over.

NEXT. Just like the rest.

Now back to my regularly scheduled 7's. With legit culinary, massage, dome, and pocket money..

Post: #35

(11-25-2015 11:07 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Halo Effect is real strong in this topic, as is the "rational actor" concept.

WIA

I'm not familiar with these. Can you elaborate?

Post: #36

How to treat a 9? Just neg her.

Post: #37

Re: Courage Reborn. Spot on. Goes more or less hand in hand with my experiences. The few times I've experienced a true 9, I've had some aspect of status which placed me above her in the social peaking order. [In fact if I really think about it, higher status has more than likely been significantly responsible for all of my lays - Attractive or otherwise].

Post: #38

(11-26-2015 12:13 AM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

(11-25-2015 11:07 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Halo Effect is real strong in this topic, as is the "rational actor" concept.

WIA

I'm not familiar with these. Can you elaborate?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect

" If the observer likes one aspect of something, they will have a positive predisposition toward everything about it. If the observer dislikes one aspect of something, they will have a negative predisposition toward everything about it."

Post: #39

Been with 8s, never a 9.

My first thought was that the 'treat them differently' just stems from there being so fewer of them. ... 9s ar e just harder to come by statistically. . ..they're still just chics.

Also looking around at some 9s my buddies and acquaintes have...the guys treat them like any other girl.

Trust me, psychologically, they all have the same brain.

#3 was interesting because on a macro level it doesn't matter. How you "treat" her in the moment won't give you a 4 point bump. It'll give you a one, maybe 2 point bump. Your lifestyle, which includes a lot including how many approaches you've done, will bump you more outside of the moment.

Post: #40

Like Mystery said, 9s are rarely alone. So your game has to tailor made to deal with cockblocks, amogs and mother hens.

Post: #41

In my opinion.
Treat them differently.

The bulk of us that have been around here for a while understand the idea of thirstiness. None of us are thirsty or out being Simps, when it comes to women.

So for that matter, when I encounter women that I truly put value on. That are more worth keeping in my life. I treat them differently.
I don't take them to seedy bars, pump and dump them or treat them like children.
They don't get the same treatment that I give the girls that I meet at bars and clubs.

This thread popped up right around Roosh's Elephant in the Room post.

Guys complain up an down the hall that women bounce from dick to dick and stay on their cell phones all day. So they continue to Smash and Dash, bottle up their feeling and be a hardass.

When it comes to High level girls.. being a Nine, isn't just looks.. its the whole package.
If a girl is putting her heart and soul, sacrificing for me, I'll give her the courtesy and do the same.

Genuine people create genuine relationships.

I dated a girl a while back for over a year. She wasn't perfect.. and was a solid 7 in looks.
But when I was an hous away sick. She took off work and picked me up to take me to the hospital. Make business calls for me and do things on my behalf. She never asked for anything in repayment.
Even though we aren't together..Even some of my close family members stay in contact with her and acknowledge that she wasn't the average girl.
I never went so far out of my way to buy her gifts every week and act thirsty..But I never treated her "Like the other girls"

Post: #42

The first guy that really helped me step my game up years ago, wasn't Mystery or RSD, but Badboy from the Game. One of the best pieces of knowledge I ever got from him was the subject of going after models/strippers /hired guns. These girls have a different reality than majority of girls. Having gone out with a model and constantly TRYING to pick up more, here's two things they go through on a daily basis.

1) Get called gorgeous on a daily basis.

I remember telling my ex that she looked cute this one day and right away she got pissed saying she's sick and tired of guys saying "hey gorgeous ". While it might've been okay in initial pickup, after you get them, complimenting them on looks isnt a good idea. Contrast this with some of my cute exgfs and they would get mad if I didn't notice something cute about them and/ or didn't say they looked beautiful.

2) They get gawked at CONSTANTLY by both guys and girls. Shit, I don't know how many times I've tried chatting up a hot ass girl where before the point of sale, I was nobody but if I was able to open successfully and hook (for at least conversation) suddenly I felt a million eyes on me. Id see total creepers, jealous chicks, lame ass comments by dudes with no game, etc. I would experience this for 10/15, but now imagine getting that everyday. Some 5 or 6 chick who has a beer gut ain't gonna have the same mentality as a drop dead gorgeous chick.

While I'm gonna say you treat them differently, I would also add that if you ONLY GO FOR HOT ONES, you won't have to change your game up too much. it's the same with people you hang with, business ppl to network with. You choose what "vibe" you wanna be around.

I'd also add (and since this is Roosh forum, I'm sure most of you will know this) but who might be considered a 10 here in US might be average or above average in another country. With so many fat, unfeminine chicks with shitty style in US, a decently slim chick with feminine style can look like a total babe in US. Here's proof:

I remember being in Korea and macking on this cute blonde Finnish chick (totally stood out as she was the only white girl in this neighbourhood) and it turns out she worked as a model in LA. She was cute but she wasn't hot. Ughhh.. I'm reminded of how I need to get the fuck out instead of wasting time..

Post: #43

This is something which has been on my mind and it is funny that it coincides with my return to the forum; you gave me some further impetus to regurgitate these thoughts on to here.

Hooligan Harry and Distant Light are probably the best posters to comment on this.

Preface: I have banged 1 legit 9, gotten to know (decently) around 8-9 and my friends have also experienced the same.

My observations arise from personal experience and anecdotal discussion with individuals from scenes frequented by elite women such as:

- Super yachts in the French Riviera, Hamptons, Miami and the Caribbean

- Friends who are photographers working for the top modelling agencies here in Cape Town (CT has hands down the hottest girls but harder than EE) & a German lady 50 years old who is one of the biggest photographers for Vogue (probably the most genuine woman I have ever met)

- Working in a boutique hotel, part-time manager, which deals exclusively with German production companies (adverts for fashion houses etc) and modelling agencies such as 20 Management (liaises with Ford, Why Not in Milan & Marilyn Gaultier in Paris), Ice, Boss etc.

- Being a regular at the local hangouts where these models frequent & befriending the photographers – game ala Distant Light

- An Italian friend of mine who did Milan fashion week for 3 seasons in a row as a photographer

- The guy I live with who bangs 4-5 girls a week, who are at least 7s but there have been two 9s that I have personally witnessed

- A family member is engaged to a 9; she used to model but now is the face of a wine company and travels extensively. He smokes weed and plays FIFA all day but has a good job but more importantly, he is handsome, comes from a rich/good family but ultimately is a child!

The reason I harp on about this is to give context as to where and how you will meet 9s and more importantly, how they roll. The most common theme in all of the above examples is status. This post is about game though. So bear with me as I cover status briefly.

Status is what gets your foot in the door. Game is what will keep her around.

If you have this, you are entitled and have a lot more leeway.

Status = money and power and as time passes by, if your status is relative (big fish in a small pond) it will be harder to keep her around and you will need more game.

I cannot give a cheat sheet and I doubt that a guy regularly pulling 9s would have the time to actively post on this forum but I adapt in certain ways around such women.

Re: Status and getting you in there


a) Preselection

This is covered to a high extent here but cannot be understated.

- Are you a hot commodity?

- Is there already there? -> Most guys fail with these girls because they try and communicate their status instead of letting the status do the talking for itself

- Do you make people feel good and is this infectious?

Think Distant Light (who is the perfect person for this question).



b) Congruence and how you treat them (touches on handling)

To some, this will be different to 7s and for others it will be exactly the same. What this comes down to is congruence. This is fundamental in the sense that you are yourself and not trying hard because you are impressed by her beauty. The guys I know who do the best are the ones who are themselves around the waitresses, models and the cleaning ladies.

Their beauty has gotten them into circles surrounded by money, fake emotions and showing face. Hence, they have these ‘shields’ around. Actually, ‘shields’ a negative frame. They are just blending in.

For interactions:

- You look like you belong in that environment and if, in any way ‘working’, you are the boss (re: photographers, managing hotels etc.)

- As above, have I got money/am I good looking/high status/powerful/big fish in a small pond even?

- You judge them based off their actions and not their looks

- A bit of vulnerability goes a long way, you are not ashamed of being yourself and losing them but rather are there to create an emotional connection

- You are congruent and in line with your behaviour. She can see that you treat other women the same way as you treat her (7s and 9s) but you reward the behaviour and stuff differently

- Given the above, when you are making a move, it is out of pure intrigue and you plant seeds (indirect) as opposed to direct where your status will need to be through the roof



c) Calibration to a higher level

You can adjust to the higher level of what is going on and mesh your reality with hers. A 9 is used to the high life, people having money and status. This is related to belonging but an easier way to describe this would be:

If peoples personalities are A – Z, can I identify (looking past her hotness, standard 7 game and the status of my ‘competitors’) that we will get along from F – T and project it and amplify that?

With this, it is easier to draw a Venn diagram to show what I mean:





Bubble of attraction = (personality + leveraging your attractiveness/status + calibration + directing the interaction over time) + (her willingness to open up + ping off what you are putting out there)

Thus, where our personalities intersect:

- Do I have enough time to project this?

- Does this set me apart i.e. what am I bringing to this bubble that is special?

- Does it pass the litmus test of game theories?

- Can I leverage this into a legitimate connection, looking past her beauty?

- Do I have the balls to challenge her personality, if it is subpar? (can walk away and don’t really care because I got that abundance?)

- Even if impressed, can I still communicate such abundance through my actions and body language?


Re: Handling 9s once you have them around


a) Cultural and societal intelligence

9s from Russia will be different to 9s from Australia.

I believe this to be important in the sense that you can adapt and accept that Russian women will be more materialistic, stone cold and want a guy who can treat them in an old-school manner. It is hit and miss of course, based off on where you meet them. The Australian may be more status driven and want you to have that on show. I am assuming the woman in your example is EE.

They may be exactly the same and you will need to identify such traits and keep it going. Like any women, they have the same things that drive them:

- Attention -> they want to feel wanted

- Validation -> they want to be reassured, from you and her friends

- Approval -> they want your permission and consent

9s will behave differently to 7s though and experience all of the above to a high extent.

Can you meet these on an emotional level as opposed to the materialistic level that most guys feed 9s with through the creation of memorable experiences?


b) Sucking her into your reality

This essentially means bringing her in to your world and having a special relationship where she pings off you.

Women ping off men and view their realities through the lens us men experience life.

When they shit test us and try and change us, it is because they are challenging that view.

- Maintaining the bubble of attraction as posed above in the Venn diagram

- Setting a rewarding frame based off her behaviour not her looks

- Setting a new level of normalcy by redefining what you find attractive about women, not what her previous boyfriends set the level at

She is joining you for the ride of what is your life and you reward her good behaviour with passenger seat on this exciting, sometimes opulent, ultimately captivating journey.


c) Vulnerability

You have to show a few chinks in your armour to be authentic. I believe if you genuinely care for a person (forget the paper alpha analogies littered all over the forum), this will automatically come out.

This is very powerful as this will balance against the status and show your human side. You gotta pick your timing of when to be stoic and when to be vulnerable. Always on an independent level for her to ping off it, she will open up to you this way. If you are vulnerable when pinging off to her (shit tests etc.) then it undermines your calmness and stoicism.


d) Normalcy of aforementioned status

You do shit because it is normal.

5 star hotels, chartering yachts, all money related shit.

The people you spend time with are all cool and she feels honoured to be a part of it.

You come from a good family and can dangle marriage in front of her like a carrot on a stick without ever solidly promising such dreams.

This is the same as congruence but rather, your environment is congruent with you instead of you being congruent with your environment.

Everything works like clockwork because it is the way it always was and you can ‘manipulate’ her thirst for that status because this is what is normal.

With such normalcy comes:

- Abundance and her fear of loss

- Her addiction to such status

- If you are cool, her complete infatuation as you are genuine


e) Entitlement management

You will need to be able to manage her high expectations, based off the pure fact that she will feel entitled due to her hotness. Like most women, she is aware of her market value and will always leverage it. Therefore, it is paramount to be able to manage such entitlement.

A distinction needs to be made between doing shit that is normal for you and shit you do to appease her. If you appease her, it sure as shit must not look like that.
This ties in with bringing her into your reality, normalcy of status and your frame.

I believe keeping 9s around is an 80/20 of status and game.

Game will compensate for lack of status as time passes by and you bullshitted your way into her pants (what I did).

My direct and indirect experiences from the modelling/production/photography/superyachts industry is that status is the main thing and the illusion of status compensates for game but guys get played. Game is what keeps it solid. Gringuito will attest to this too.

That being said, 95% of guys have status and no game. The ones who have game are the ones who not only have money but power as well as game and power are intertwined.

edit: I voted treatment doesn't matter

If you keep doing you and your value is high enough, moral belief strong enough and your attractiveness constant to increasing, she will just ping off you and be happy.

The difference comes from old-school game with negging and shit like that. Personally, I follow an indirect vocals and direct body language theme, peppered with sexualized convo a bit later on so I haven't observed treatment difference being so major.

It depends on the individual.

Post: #44

(11-25-2015 01:43 PM)slubu Wrote:  Some great replies so far. Just to comment quickly.

(11-25-2015 11:31 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I'm hoping the heavy weights answer this one.

WIA

Me too. Feel free to chime in, you didn't get 200+ rep points by accident.

(11-25-2015 12:42 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  I'm speaking purely speculatively here as I've never been with a 9. I have banged a couple 8's in my day, but never a girl in the top 10% of looks.

Neither have I, only a few dates with them as outlined above.

Quote:I would say when it comes to trying to get in with girls of this stature, if you do not have something equally top 10% to offer her then social circle is king.

Indeed.

Girl 1 was cold approach at bar, but she must have just loved something about me because she volunteered her #. She was an actual Ford model.

Girls 2 and 3 were social circle entirely.

Quote:The romantic in me likes to think you can talk to a 9 like a normal girl and charm like just like any other average female, but realistically girls of that caliber know their worth and know what their looks can afford them. They can and generally are far more picky than a typical broad of typical cute looks because they have that many more options and opportunities.

Agreed.

(11-25-2015 01:04 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  In my experience, there aren't any 9s and 10s just 8s who are really good at applying make up.

With that in mind, game away like any other women. I've found social circle is really the only means of meeting this girls.

I have to disagree with you on the first part. While this post focuses on 9s, there are a few girls I have seen personally that are just outright remarkable. No amount of makeup can do that. Things like glacier blue eyes on a blemish free symmetrical face. Some people not only just hit the genetic lottery, but the largest pot in that lottery as well.

(11-25-2015 01:05 PM)Pride male Wrote:  How you treat them also depends on your social rank. A billionaire can treat a 9 like shit but Bob from accounting will have to try a different approach.

And thus, effectively going with Theory 3 - lifestyle determines more than actions.

(11-25-2015 01:23 PM)LINUX Wrote:  Cool post: Since you're looking for intellectual conversations, I will tell you my theory on things and I've been thinking about this for years.

...

But saying that, I think there's a huge difference between a hot woman and a beautiful woman. Even 9's ans 10's are jealous of beautiful women. These beautiful women have to be gammed differently. They can be fragile and broken, sometimes having one goal: to make you happy and feel loved. You can go home and jerk off to a hot woman and then go to sleep but if you meet a beautiful woman, it'll keep you awake at night and haunt you..

After hundreds and hundreds of women, I no longer waste my time with a number scale.

Valid points. I do like the number scale however. Not for my own ego, but following my belief different girls are handled differently.

I'd also like to just mention so far - though extremely limited in my experience - the 9s I have interacted with are not wonders personality wise. But again I'm drawing from a limited pool here.

[/quote]

Going to disagree. This is part of my disillusionment with women.

Much like body weight, women's attractiveness varies throughout the day. Again like getting a good measure on body weight, how she looks immediately after getting out of bed in the morning is the best measure of a woman's attractiveness. Anything else especially after a shower, makeup, clothes, and what ever other millions of little things chicks do to doll themselves up just obscures the rating.

Secondly in my experience one man's 9 is most likely a 7 for another and vice versa. I'd have to see a picture to objectively have my opinion changed.

And finally, i've been with objectively hot chicks. However, once I got them naked I was severely disappointed. Great chassis, poor engine. Your mileage may vary.

Post: #45

Post: #46

Experienced players truly understand what a 9 is and only provide this rating for the most unique of physical specimens. Guys with limited experience assign a "9" to girls in the 7-8 range because these girls are much hotter than what they are accustomed to.

As someone who values quality much more than quantity, I find great interest in this thread. I have dated and banged consistently in the 7 to 8 range for over 20 years. Guys in this community who have spent time with me will attest to my standards in which I rarely deviate from. This is a double-edge sword because I get laid less because I rarely pursue sub quality.

The reason I bring this up is because "Inner Game" is an important factor if you ever have the opportunity with a 9. Most guys reading this never will. You have to truly believe that you deserve and will bed this woman. Because these opportunities are so rare, it is almost impossible to derive empirical data. I have bedded one such creature and have had maybe less than a hand-full of other legitimate chances. For whatever the reason, I genuinely believed I was going to get this girl. My confidence was unshakable. However, with the others, my Inner Game was telling me that I was playing out of my league.

There are several other factors that come into play, but you must fundamentally believe that you are entitled to such quality.

Post: #47

(11-25-2015 06:40 PM)XXL Wrote:  You can't treat them all the same cause different girls live in different realities and respond to different things. I also don't agree with mike cf cause good solid game actually repulse regular girls, not gets them. And third point makes no sense to me.

I can write how to HANDLE very attractive girls as a regular guy if anyone wants though.

A mini data sheet - outline of simple bullet points even - is appreciated.

Post: #48

There are single 9 moms, drug addict 9s, famous 9s, bartender 9s, low self esteem 9s, 9s on the rebound, gold digger 9s, former fattie 9s, 9s who are really 7s with make up, 9s with daddy issues, virgin 9s, 9s within sight of the wall etc etc. Ergo they require different types of game.

Post: #49

Coming from the corporate world there is a saying so common it has almost become a Cliche - born out of any number of Biz Schools courses and ISO 900X certifications - it is you can't manage what you can't measure.

So how do you measure a "9"

A 9 will have a Fibonacci Golden Ratio Face and Figure of which the beautiful face or Faccia Bella is critical because that is the real beauty that captivates and literally stuns the beholder. Then followed by the bella figura or beautiful figure - we have all heard of the Butterface - she has a great figure - but-her-face? Therefore it is well known that a true 9 must have both a golden ratio face and figure.

So how do you measure this elusive trophy 9 in the wilds of the real world?

Here is a manual system to measure the Golden Ratio face...

http://facethis.blogspot.com/2012/01/per...eauty.html

Do It Yourself Manual Version using a few more calculations:

a = Top-of-head (1) to chin (2) = cm
b = Top-of-head (1) to pupil (3) = cm
c = Pupil (3) to nosetip (4) = cm
d = Pupil (3) to lip (5) = cm
e = Width of nose (6 to 7) = cm
f = Outside distance between eyes (8 to 9) = cm
g = Width of head (10 to 11) = cm
h = Hairline (12) to pupil (3) = cm
i = Nosetip (4) to chin (2) = cm
j = Lips (5) to chin (2) = cm
k = Length of lips (13 to 14) = cm
l = Nosetip (4) to lips (5) = cm

Now, find the ratios. 1.62 is golden.
a/g = cm
b/d = cm
i/j = cm
i/c = cm
e/l = cm
f/h = cm
k/e = cm

Note calculate the percentage off of the golden ratio on a 1 to 10 basis 1.62 being the perfect 10... then average the converted ratios and divde buy the number of ratios measured and the result is the Golden Ratio score on a 1 to 10 scale - viola now you can measure the level of effort of game you need to manage!

Or - you can go automatic:

http://www.goldennumber.net/beauty/

Facial Analysis and the Beauty Mask
January 12, 2014 by Gary Meisner 42 Comments

“Beauty is in the phi of the beholder.”

The video featuring a real 9 Florence Colgate explains it much better than I can...

https://youtu.be/kKWV-uU_SoI

Featuring the Marquardt Beauty Mask

Who is Marquardt?

A template for human beauty is found in phi and the pentagon

Dr. Stephen Marquardt has studied human beauty for years in his practice of oral and maxillofacial surgery. Dr. Marquardt performed cross-cultural surveys on beauty and found that all groups had the same perceptions of facial beauty. He also analyzed the human face from ancient times to the modern day. Through his research, he discovered that beauty is not only related to phi, but can be defined for both genders and for all races, cultures and eras with the beauty mask which he developed and patented. This mask uses the pentagon and decagon as its foundation, which embody phi in all their dimensions. For more information and other examples, see his site at Marquardt Beauty Analysis.

Note: This is now all automated with image analysis - shown in the video which was done with
PhiMatrix Golden Ratio Design and Analysis Software...

Now here is the catch - scroll down the above linked page and you will see how a lesser than perfect 9 face can use the Software to "morph" to the Marquardt ideal Fibonacci Golden Ratio face "mask"...

That's right men - that "9" in the on line pics who you actually meet seems a bit less perfect than her pics portrayed - it was not unusually good makeup in her photos - she was one of the few women smart enough to make her photos stand out on line by having them morphed to the golden ratio ideal!

So what is a 10...

She is a unicorn with the perfect face, perfect fertile child bearing body and brilliant mind that you would like to pass on to your children combined with a magnetic personality that makes you want to run home to her and the children she gives you every night after work while pinching yourself about how smart you are to realize game enough to build yourself and your wealth enough to create such luck!

So why share this - serving on Nuke Subs I did not have much opportunity to meet any women from age 18 to 24 - but I had an uncanny ability to pick at least 5 of any major Miss USA or Miss Universe 10 semifinalists... I have dated exactly three 9's in my entire lifetime. I did not know it at the time but my inner desire to mate with the most genetically perfect females (Physical, Intellect and Personality) that would give my offspring the best prospects to not just survive but prosper in this world was based upon the universality of the Golden Ratio...

Since then I learned neoman game and realized you can't get with 9's or 10's unless you are where they live in relative abundance and have the success tools and logistics necessary to successfully hunt.

So now you have the manual and automatic tools you need to recognize your targets - only question now is where to go hunting for natural 9's and Real 10's.

Hint an alpha friend a prosperous JD and LLM with a thing for smart hot Latinas once told me while sipping cold drinks poolside at an upscale Miami bay front condo complex on Brickell Ave between SoBeach and Coconut Grove... Beauty is attracted to wealth and wealth is attracted to warm weather!

We should do a poll on the best 9 & 10 hunting grounds in the world and what you need to do to "buy" your hunting license in each prime "hunting ground".

Post: #50

(11-25-2015 11:31 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I'm hoping the heavy weights answer this one.

WIA

I came into this thread to read your responses