Post: #1

I'm around the same age as Roosh (35) so I've been reading with interest his recent columns. I can totally relate to so much of what he is saying. Young fellas in their 20s smashing sluts on the regular probably can't comprehend this, but you do evolve as a man and start getting sick of the smorgasbord of sluts out there these days. You get to the point where mediocre just wont cut the mustard. I don't want to bang a Tinder whore with blue hair and a bull ring piercing just because I can...

I want something more, and I have a great girlfriend from the Ukraine who I have been seeing for a couple of years now. She is definitely keen on getting married, and you know what, in a bygone era I honestly would have been happy to take the plunge. But these days? I just can't see it being worth the risk. Do many of you other guys feel the same? We live together, I'm happy, I just can't see what benefit it would possibly bring to my life. All I can see is wasting tonnes of money on one day and possibly getting divorce raped down the track. She has solid family values, but I look at some of my mates who have been absolutely reamed and honestly I'm shit scared of suffering the same fate. One of my mates was married for about 8 years, then one day his wife comes home and says she's not in love with him anymore. Goodbye house, goodbye car. He looks fucking depressed, he's a shadow of his former self. Turns out she's been fucking a guy at her law firm for two years! Another mate, he had a house, car etc and then his girl decides she's a lesbian and leaves him. Not only that, she was a real bitch in the divide up, milking him for everything he had despite her being in the wrong. Both girls seemed like solid girlfriends and wives. It was scary as shit to see them turn so quickly.

It's sad. I'm a red pill guy, but honestly I'm at the stage where I'm happy to settle down with a good woman and start my family. But I look at all I have to lose, and it is truly terrifying. I used to bang a lot of sluts back in the day, and I'm definitely over them. I see what's out there these days in the singles market and 99% of them are trashy whores. My girl cooks for me, cleans for me, and does all kinds of nice things for me, has DD tits, a hot body and a sexy face. She leaves them for dead.. but how can I totally be sure given my mate's experiences?

Feminism sure has a lot to answer for - it has completely destroyed relationships between men and women. One thing that definitely pisses me off is that the media decries the problems women have finding a marriageable man, but these articles never properly explain that women have caused men to rightly fear the institution.

Thoughts? Anyone in a similar position?

Post: #2

Have you read The Rational Male?

The game you learnt to get women is the same game you need to keep a wife. There is no rest from it.

Post: #3

If we want to have an honest discussion about why our relationships with females aren't working out, we could come up with a million different reasons, and given that it's an honest discussion, I doubt "feminism" would rarely come up.

That's not to discount the negative effect that it has had on society as a whole, but if you take a step back to stop looking at the collective, which mostly encompasses shit that you just hear and read about, and focus on your own individual situation, men create a number of self-inflicted wounds when it comes to their dealings with women, and that's mostly because they get too involved with the wrong women, yet try to fit them into their ideal with the belief that they can mold them or game them into being what they want and need them to be.

The pool of worthy women is incredibly shallow, that's why it's easier to fuck than it is to do the real shit. While we may want the good relationship, and we're willing to work for it, women just talk about it while they continue logging onto dating websites and shopping for outfits to wear on weekend night attention whore missions -- because that's all they really want to do, it's easier to be somebody's ho than it is to be somebody's wife.

The game is all fucked up on so many levels, you have a right to feel the way that you feel, protect yourself, do what you feel is right for you; don't do or not do something because of what happened to your friend, especially since those are the worst situations to align your beliefs with because your friends will always leave out important details in their failed relationships because it's their aim to paint themselves as victims as opposed to grown-ups who made bad decisions and contributed in some fashion to the demise of their relationships.

Post: #4

This should probably be in the game forum.

Anyways, what is your objective? Sounds like you have a sweet deal going for you right now. Is she pressuring for marriage? Or are you just ready to settle down and start a family? I'm not familiar with marriage or custody laws down under but I would assume they're as shitty as the states.

You could always have a ceremony but not submit the marriage license. But common law will still consider you "married", since you lived together X amount of years. I know a guy who knocked up his live-in girlfriend and pays not only child support, but also alimony. This was in the states but probably isn't far-fetched for other western nations.

In the end you have to go with your gut. Yeah, about half of all marriages end in divorce. But guess what, about half of all marriages don't. Can you objectively gauge which half your relationship will fall in? I think guys on here can tilt the odds in their favor by picking choice girls and running game when they need to. It's not all doom and gloom. There's a handful of successful married guys on the forum. I hope they can chime in with their experiences.

Post: #5

If you're having doubts about something, especially about something with a payoff structure as negatively convex as marriage--do not do it.

Your instincts are there for a reason.

If your girlfriend loves you, she loves you... and will stick to you--marriage or not. If the lack of marriage causes her to leave you, so what?

She'd be showing her true colors, and you'd lose nothing by showing her the door.

Post: #6

There was a thread here a while back that said something like "hey guys, the vast majority of you RVFers are going to get married and have kids some day". This is probably true.

If you think you owe yourself and the world some children, then getting married is not a terrible idea but be aware of the risks. Make sure she is OK with a modest and private ceremony, that is usually a good sign, and if she's religious that is another good sign. It sounds like she has domestic skills, that's wifely and another good sign. Dalrock has a lot of posts about this, how to shit test women and basically figure out how much they actually commit in a marriage.

If you don't ever want children then getting married is kind of stupid.

Post: #7

The first blush of married love always wears off. Give it a few years or so. You won't be as impressed with her looks or her pussy, but hopefully you'll have some intimacy with her and sense of being safe and respected with her that it makes up for it.

Marriage is basically a long domestic business partnership -- with all that entails. It's a special kind of partnership because one of the partners has the upper hand legally and financially: the woman. Marry her in most Western countries and you are basically putting yourself into a contractual position that is not equal in that respect. For that reason, lawyers (HankMoody and Merenguero can tell you the horror stories) don't recommend that men marry: you are not entering into an equal partnership legally or financially, which no lawyer can ever in good conscience advise you to do.

You need to ask yourself very coldly, very objectively (and preferably after you've jerked off so you're not thinking with your dick): if you had to trust someone with half your shit, half your bank, and all of the children you might have, would this person be worthy of that level of trust from you? If the answer is no to any of those questions, then you don't marry her, any more than you'd enter a business partnership with someone that you didn't trust completely.

If the answer is yes to questions, you need to ask yourself that question again. Several times. Very carefully, remembering every annoying habit and every white lie she ever told you. Honest in small things, honest in large for the most part. If she's prepared to lie about where the money came from for those $50 shoes, I promise you she will be lying about where the money comes from for the fur coat or new dress or pearl earrings she'll be wearing later down the track.

You might well say in reply "Oh come on, everyone lies, everyone is human." Dishonesty or lies might be forgiveable if they're inconsequential and the power in the relationship is equal. Fact is, it's not -- and consequently, you have to hold your woman to a higher standard than a civilian. A civilian can't take half your house off you and banish you from seeing your kids while still paying for them for 18 years. A woman can -- by moving out, and she can do much worse by making one phone call to the cops.

There is nothing wrong, and a lot to be said for, holding her to a high standard in this area. Remember: you are the catch.

Post: #8

I'll chime in. I think a lot of Australian guys need to brush up on 'de-facto relationships' which was re-evaluated in 2009. My father specialises in this field and from many of the posts I've read on the RVF I'm positive most guys probably aren't very aware of the rules and regulations when it comes to a de-facto relationship.

Long story short: If you've been living in a domesticated relationship with someone for up to two years - You can very well end up in the same situation as a divorce irrespective of whether you're married or not.

Quote:The Family Law Courts can make these orders if satisfied of one of the following:

-the period (or the total of the periods) of the de facto relationship is at least 2 years

He personally deals with numerous cases on a daily basis of split assets from de-facto relationships.

Quote:The new laws provide for de facto couples, when they separate, to obtain property settlements on the principles that apply under the Family Law Act 1975 to married couples.

This is another reason why many of the pro-gay marriage arguments don't stack up in Australia. Gays have the same legislation already protecting them in a de-facto relationship.

Not sure how it works in the US but for Australian guys that's something to think about… Especially you TS. You may already be in a situation that legally resembles marriage. The only reason this isn't more prevalent is because many aren't aware of their own rights under the Australian legal system.

PS: Sorry to scare the shit out of anyone who isn't aware of this.

http://www.familyrelationships.gov.au/Br...kdown.aspx

Post: #9

Paracelsus, that post needs to be a sticky in any thread related to marriage from here on out. +1

Post: #10

OP, sounds like you and your buddies are in the West. If so, and you want marriage, try and move to a place where the odds are in your favor. Maybe to Ukraine, where her parents can help raise your kids (marriage is pointless without them).

If you are unable or unwilling to leave the West, I agree with the lawyers we have here - don't get married.

Post: #11

Making decisions out of fear is not a good way to live a fulfilling life.

Post: #12

I would just do everything possible you can to shield yourself and go for it (kids/family with no marriage) IF this chick is actually legit.

In the states, there is virtually no point in getting married. None. As long as you are not in a common law state (only a few states are like this), the only major risk is child support; which can still be a significant hit financially but will be nothing compared to divorce. Get a co-habitation agreement that clearly explains who owns what, keep everything in your name, separate bank accounts, and you should mostly be good to go.

If the chick isn't down for a kid without the marriage paperwork, tell her to fuck off. If you split, she will likely get the kids and an unfair amount of child support anyway (especially if you make bank) so whatever financial concerns she has in the event of a split are bullshit.

If she truly loves you, she will go along with the kids without marriage concept and your relationship will probably be healthier for it since she can't easily clean you out. Bitches know once the ring is on, they own you and you're fucked.

I believe you are in OZ so I can't speak to the specifics there but the principle is still the same: do everything possible to shield yourself and do nothing that compromises you in any way unnecessarily; especially anything to appease outdated social conventions.

Legal marriage is dead in the Western world; particularly so for the type of man who wants to be the sole/primary provider in their family. Until the divorce laws are updated to be fair to all parties involved, you shouldn't even contemplate the thought of entering a legal marriage with a woman. It is sad but it's the reality.

As an older man, your financial well-being becomes a bigger and bigger factor as you age and getting wiped out by a ungrateful cunt you provided food/shelter/luxuries for years is par for the course in most western divorces. You have seen the damage with your friends. Act accordingly.

Post: #13

What was her dating history like before you met? A small number of LTRs or a series of short-term flings? Are her parents still married? What is her age? Are her friends in stable relationships/marriages? Is she easily influenced by external factors/events?

Not that the answers to these questions should be the deciding factor(s), but but they may help to put things into perspective.

Post: #14

I remember that "most of your RVFers will get married someday thread" as well. The more time that goes by, the more I'm thinking that I'll remain determined to stay in the camp that doesn't. My biggest desire in life has been and remains freedom. Marriage is sacrificing that, or at least compromising it to a large degree. Imagine yourself in future years - do you want the option to move to, live, and work anywhere? To spend time with whomever your heart desires in any given moment? Spend the fruits of your labor and time on any hobby or pursuit you deem worthy? If yes to any of these, I just can't see marriage working out for you. Children and the possible avoidance of loneliness in old age are the main arguments for marriage and they just don't make it worth it for me, at least not now. And as mentioned above, you can't slack off on your game just because your married.

Post: #15

You don't get married for you.

Approaching marriage with "what can I get out of this" is going to end in failure.

Marriage is a sacrifice. It's a commitment to put someone else (be it spouse or child) above yourself for their benefit.

If that sounds absurd (is that even alpha to do that brah) - don't get married.

Post: #16

(11-13-2015 04:33 AM)Sooth Wrote:  You don't get married for you.

Approaching marriage with "what can I get out of this" is going to end in failure.

Marriage is a sacrifice. It's a commitment to put someone else (be it spouse or child) above yourself for their benefit.

If that sounds absurd (is that even alpha to do that brah) - don't get married.

I could understand that I guess...to satisfy a man's natural urge to protect and provide for, but does the same apply for a female? I'm going to venture to say no. This argument is one-sided and seems like something a marriage counselor or girlfriend wanting marriage would say.

Post: #17

Do not marry. If she leaves you because you just live together and not married you are better off anyway, shes showed her true colors.

Post: #18

(11-13-2015 05:43 AM)presidentcarter Wrote:  

(11-13-2015 04:33 AM)Sooth Wrote:  You don't get married for you.

Approaching marriage with "what can I get out of this" is going to end in failure.

Marriage is a sacrifice. It's a commitment to put someone else (be it spouse or child) above yourself for their benefit.

If that sounds absurd (is that even alpha to do that brah) - don't get married.

I could understand that I guess...to satisfy a man's natural urge to protect and provide for, but does the same apply for a female? I'm going to venture to say no. This argument is one-sided and seems like something a marriage counselor or girlfriend wanting marriage would say.

Yes the same applies for females but the urge is not for her provider (you) but for her (your) children. She is in service to you like a child is to parents.

The only way marriage makes sense is if you want children. If you don't, then marriage is useless.

Post: #19

(11-13-2015 05:43 AM)presidentcarter Wrote:  

(11-13-2015 04:33 AM)Sooth Wrote:  You don't get married for you.

Approaching marriage with "what can I get out of this" is going to end in failure.

Marriage is a sacrifice. It's a commitment to put someone else (be it spouse or child) above yourself for their benefit.

If that sounds absurd (is that even alpha to do that brah) - don't get married.

I could understand that I guess...to satisfy a man's natural urge to protect and provide for, but does the same apply for a female? I'm going to venture to say no. This argument is one-sided and seems like something a marriage counselor or girlfriend wanting marriage would say.

The trick is finding a woman that puts you before herself. Look for that trait in a woman and the pool starts to become super shallow. Always look for actions over words.

Post: #20

What is the purpose of marriage? It's a contractual obligation between two people to remain faithful to, and provide for the needs of each other until they die. That arrangement is now impossible in the west. It's a contract that can be severed, often to the benefit of the other party, and is thus invalid before it even started. There is no upside to getting married. You should trust your gut on this, you have every right to be scared.

Aside from the purely practical side of it, I can still see most women wanting to get married before they have kids. It's instinct for them to want a sense of security and stability before having children that will be totally dependent. Most women have been in and out of relationships before, so just being in a relationship might not give the sense of security she needs. Marriage gives women higher status among their peers, and a day where she can be the star of her show. She probably also senses deep in her bones that it gives her more leverage. It's for those reasons that women still demand marriage before children, even though modern marriage has been rendered largely meaningless.

worldwidetraveler Wrote:Making decisions out of fear is not a good way to live a fulfilling life.

I agree, but there are times when fear is irrational and times when it is warranted. Many of us travel to areas more dangerous than our home countries because the reward is greater than the risk. I don't see an upside to getting married in the west, so I think the fear is warranted and the risks aren't worth it. It's often overlooked that a woman demanding marriage is coming from a fear-based perspective. She is afraid of being discarded sometime in the future, and getting formally married is a way for her to allay that fear.

I'm not ready to settle down quite yet, but when I find a woman that I want to have a family with, I think this fear will have to be addressed. They have to understand that marriage changes nothing in the modern era, that if I wanted to discard her I could simply file for divorce, and that if I choose to start a family with her I will do whatever I can to support her and our children. If her family pressured her or she was religious, I would suggest we could be informally married without the paperwork. If she still demands marriage after that, then I wouldn't trust her intentions.

Post: #21

Question #1 for me would be to find out if you are at any 'common law' marriage risk already by living with her. That would require legal advice if so. Canada has interesting common law marriage laws for example. If you are, and there is risk, is marriage really going to put you any more at risk?

If you still feel like getting married, as others have mentioned...just prepare. Stash money with outside family if you can trust them, consult a lawyer etc. Once you do that you can at least have peace of mind that you have a game plan if things go to shit. Being unrealistic about divorce is probably half of the shock, being a member of this forum should reduce that, ie you won't be like "how could you stoop so low to bang X?" and you won't be surprised if a divorce settlement says "you lose all of your money plus alimony plus no kids"

Prepare for the worst, enjoy when its not.

Post: #22

Man, sounds like a lot of "fake it til you make it" responses here. Who here is married, and thinks they have it working?

I am married. She's non Western, and we have a direction i am happy with.

I will caveat, I knew I wanted to have children one day at age 19. Not to have them at 19, but it was going to happen. Guess what? You need a woman for that.

With what we know with game, its all about you need to be a certain type of man. Roissy describes it best, and I will agree, when you're not prepared for it, its a shock to find out the real nature of women. Once you do, and then know how to deal with it, you prepare properly.

The more mature of us hope we're guiding the rest of you that way.

Firstly, western environs are toxic. They submit too much power to female whims. You have to then extends beyond the reach of western jurisdictions.

Secondly is income. Admittedly non western incomes are shit. Therefore you need to acquire a western income, whilst residing in a non western country.

One of my earlier discussions here was with a poster called "Harry Hooligan". He gad his shit together, and I will readily admit I didn't know enough back then.

He has left us since, but he was on point. A balling income in most non-western countries can provide vide an equal life outcome. The elites there do have access to the same amenities found in the west. You just got to pay for them. (a lower income tax rate should mean the indemnity is back in your pocket).

All you're left with us attempting to discover how to acquire a balling income in a non-western country.

That's the value of this board. Be it the oil&gas guys discussing FIFO like the legends Scotian, or China hustlers like Suits or Vacancier Permanent (sic, sorry I'm drunk)... or you discover something and pay it forward.

There's a saying here, you never lose women chasing money, but you'll lose money chasing women.

Its about establishing control of your life. Once you do, you invite the mother of your children into your life. If you've got your shit together, she's invited because she offers the rights eggs for your children, and the proper nurturing instinct to run your household.

All the other shit, the confidence, the control, the game, the provision. It's there because you've acquired it first. She toes the line in these countries because that's the way shit works.

To the OP, it sounds like you've got a proper woman, you just need to structure the other stuff

Post: #23

Growing up in a blue pill environment with the added benefit of being subjected to religion that was constantly contradicted, I always had the fairy tale version of what marriage was supposed to be. Now we all know that marriage is a shit proposition nearly 100% of the time.

I remember studying history in grade school, particularly on the subject of arranged marriages. At the time the idea sounded abhorrent to me. A beautiful young woman being handed off to a suitor that her parents (especially the Father) deemed to be worthy? Not someone of her own choosing?? How barbaric!

Now after seeing the decay of our culture, outright sluttyness of almost every western female, women's piss poor judgment in choosing men, divorce rape, etc. This may be an area where a return to patriarchy can cure or mitigate this disease. Young women need to have their behavior controlled by a strong paternal figure. They're certainly not going to do it on their own, especially with the high probability that their own mothers were sluts too.

I think our ancestors had this shit figured out a long time ago, and it's high time to embrace that wisdom again.

Post: #24

(11-13-2015 02:36 AM)Kabal Wrote:  If you're having doubts about something, especially about something with a payoff structure as negatively convex as marriage--do not do it.

Your instincts are there for a reason.

If your girlfriend loves you, she loves you... and will stick to you--marriage or not. If the lack of marriage causes her to leave you, so what?

She'd be showing her true colors, and you'd lose nothing by showing her the door.

^This.

I had an English Lit professor who gave me one of the best pieces of advice I've ever heard: "All the answers are within."

Know your truths and stick to them.

Post: #25

Don't get married. It's 2015. Wake up. If you want to commit to each other and raise children, then literally do so, without the legal contract of marriage. If your gf leaves you simply because won't marry her then you've done yourself a massive favour.

Regarding the de-facto law in Aus that other's have alluded to, maybe getting creative is the best way around this - have her government registered residential address (driver licence, voting address etc) at her parent's place. Therefore if anything goes wrong, she technically isn't living at your place, as the written documents shall prove.