Post: #226

What is an indicator of "stability" (?!) ? Western media reports ? Russian middle class complaining about lack of Swiss cheese ? Russia will suffer for sure for lack of foreign currency and products, but so it will have to get used to consume it's own replacements, and make extra efforts to decrease prices of domestic products by increasing production volume.

What they did was expected. Scale down civilian expenses and increase military expenses. It will be a blow for middle class, but after all, that's what middle class is - sheep for slaughter. No one will shed much tears.

edit: I don't believe Russia will ever revolutionize anything. Iran survived embargo, so will Russia, cure is the same. With these military campaigns in foreign lands, they are buying themselves precious years. Putin even admitted that telling last year that after Ukraine "Russian homeland is next" (meaning last battleground to take down Russia). Buy moving battleground far away, they are buying themselves time and hoping something will happen to the west which will cripple it's power; economic crash, growth of China, some other type of crisis, dissolution of EU, whatever...

Post: #227

Ex British ambassador to Syria destroys Cameron's and West's Syria policy on Sky News. Totally backs Russia.

Some truth spoken here:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/CAAb4ItRuNE

Post: #228

(10-06-2015 12:00 PM)Orion Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 12:59 PM)Turkish Republican Wrote:  İ dont understand the putin love here, he is so alpha yet the ruble devalued by more than 50% thanks to US sanctions, , his people are 2x poorer compared to last year. He can talk all he wants, when you fuck with america you will like end up on the losing side we are the undisputed super power of the world. İ like his anti feminist and anti sjv agenda but bullying smaller states is not alpha.

Yes Russia is in such financial shatters right now that they are launching an overseas air and naval campaign. Hard times...

With the Federal Reserve inventing US$ out of nothing to finance its military spending which is more than Russia and China combine, any country that needs US$ to buy Arab oil pays for the US' endless wars through declining dollar values.

Assad would gladly sell his oil in any currency Russia or China invented. Like Qaddafi wanted to sell his for the African dinar and Hussein the Euro.

Russia cannot allow Saudi oil pipe lines through Syria to supply the European market and Israel has claimed Syrian gas.

Also as Agamemnon found out, the larger the army you have, the more of an overhead it is which increases the need to actually use it.

Post: #229

It's absolutely incredible - the US is even admitting to supporting "moderate" beheaders:

http://presstv.com/Detail/2015/10/06/432...IA-rebels-

Quote:A new US intelligence assessment says Russia has been targeting militant groups backed by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in Syria, deepening US anger at Moscow.

The assessment, shared by commanders on the ground, has led American officials to conclude that Russian warplanes have intentionally struck CIA-backed militants in a string of attacks running for days, the Wall Street Journal reports.

Obama administration officials are debating how the United States can come to the aid of its proxy forces on the ground without risking a broader conflict, according to the Journal.

US officials said Russia’s moves in Syria posed a direct challenge to President Barack Obama’s Syria policy.

“On day one, you can say it was a one-time mistake,” a senior US official said of a Russian strike on a militant headquarters. “But on day three and day four, there’s no question it’s intentional. They know what they’re hitting.”

Administration officials said they believe Russia’s targeting of US-allied forces is aimed at shoring up the Syrian government and sending a message to the White House.

The question that anyone should ask himself is why the US military supports those fanatics and is now upset that Russia is bombing them? Aren't those the same people who did 9/11 and are the enemies of Christianity, liberty and the American Way?

Ah - but of course it's all a ruse:







I know that we have soldiers here or ex-soldiers. Personally I would try to get the fuck out the military - join the police force and get the best pay there is for vets. Otherwise you might just acknowledge the fact that you are working for the dark side and live with it. But at least do it consciously that you are doing evil.


Might as well embrace it in full.

Post: #230

I just think it's amusing that when all of this started, I said here over and over again that the US, Israel, Turkey, and the Gulf flunkies were backing these Islamist rebels and lunatics. The war in Syria is a proxy war. America and its client states are funding the bloodshed.

And there were some pro-Israel apologists, whom I will not name, who threw hissy fit after hissy fit, demanding "proof." And now it's clear who has been lying. Now it's clear whose fingers are stained with the blood of the Syrian people.

It is Zionism and imperialism, the same enemy that has been holding the region back for the past 60 years. The scheme is to break and destroy the states that stand in the way of Israeli and American hegemony plans for the region: Iraq, Iran, Syria, and the Lebanese resistance. That's their little game.

And this is why whiny, scared rat Netanyahu shows up at the UN to cry and whine. He can't stand the fact that Iran is a proud nation and takes orders from no one. He can't stand the fact that his little nest of vipers is no longer going to be the dictator of the Middle East, bombing and killing at will. Which is what he and his country wants.

They tried the same game against Asad the Elder in the early 1980s, and they failed then. They backed Islamist maniacs who tried the same thing: terrorizing and murdering innocent people.

Post: #231

Israel is whining because they're not dealing with peasants and home grown terrorists with only homemade rockets to throw around.

Suddenly their apache helicopters, flash tanks and IDF troops might be useless against an enemy with experience and a will to kill. Lets not forget they miss out on destabilising Syria, Iraq and Iran and all the lovely resources.

Post: #232

I really think we've reached the point in the UK and USA where our own governments are the enemy and Putin and the Russians are looking like friends of the ordinary person.

Fuck Camoron, fuck Obummer, go PUTIN!

BTW, the deployment of Speznaz and the Russian Paratroops has just been announced, but I bet they were on the ground ages before the first Russian GPS guided bomb landed. There to kill all the IS and Islamist "rebel" scum who survived each bomb, I hope.

Post: #233

   

is what is now happening to Islamic State. Justice!!!

Post: #234

Quote:I really think we've reached the point in the UK and USA where our own governments are the enemy and Putin and the Russians are looking like friends of the ordinary person.

Post: #235

(10-06-2015 05:34 PM)Guitarman Wrote:  I really think we've reached the point in the UK and USA where our own governments are the enemy and Putin and the Russians are looking like friends of the ordinary person

It really does feel like that. A real feeling that our governments are not just incompetent or doing 'real politik', no they now seem evil.

We are talking about governments who are fine with supporting beheading islamic terrorists while sending millions of third worlders into Europe as a result.

And while our 'leaders' are acting as such they are telling us the most bold lies and expect us to go along. I truly believe we are already living under soft authoritarian dictatorship.

Something's got to give.

Post: #236

(10-06-2015 05:34 PM)Guitarman Wrote:  I really think we've reached the point in the UK and USA where our own governments are the enemy and Putin and the Russians are looking like friends of the ordinary person.

Unless you a Russian of course.Because the intervention against radical muslims in a Farawaystan nobody-cares-about for ordinary Russians means just two things:
-less money for ordinary Russians (majority of whom already live in absolute poverty),forget about healthcare,pensions etc
-the bloody terror will return to the streets of Russia.Expect explosions, suicide bombers etc in Russian towns pretty soon.

The memories of the pointless war in Afganistan and catastrophic campaigns in Chechnya are still strong among Russians.

This intervention will deliver 0 strategic results, as the war in Afganistan in 80s did. It will cost Russia dearly, both financially and in manpower. It might even be a final spark and ignite some sort of a coup-d-étate in Russia. Russia has already suffered serious setbacks and loses in Ukraine. Syria will be the final drop IMO.The propaganda machine there is strong but so was the Soviet propaganda machine.

Basically what we have here is a small minded man pissed off that nobody has been taking him serious in the west for a long time. People guessing what is Russia's hidden agenda in Syria. I think there is none.Support Assad just to spit in US face.Nothing more than that.

Post: #237

(10-06-2015 06:45 PM)Bona fide Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 05:34 PM)Guitarman Wrote:  I really think we've reached the point in the UK and USA where our own governments are the enemy and Putin and the Russians are looking like friends of the ordinary person.

Unless you a Russian of course.Because the intervention against radical muslims in a Farawaystan nobody-cares-about for ordinary Russians means just two things:
-less money for ordinary Russians (majority of whom already live in absolute poverty),forget about healthcare,pensions etc
-the bloody terror will return to the streets of Russia.Expect explosions, suicide bombers etc in Russian towns pretty soon.

This intervention will deliver 0 strategic results, as the war in Afganistan in 80s had. It will cost Russia dearly, both financially and in manpower. It might even be a final spark and ignite some sort of a coup détate in Russia.

Basically what we have here is a small minded man pissed off that nobody has been taking him serious in the west for a long time. People guessing what is Russia's hidden agenda in Syria. I think there is none.Support Assad just to spit in US face.Nothing more than that.

Wrong.

While there is some spite to Putin's actions in Syria, the Russians are also blocking a proposed Saudi/Qatar gas pipeline through Syria and fighting radical Islam at the same time.

If they were to leave the problem to fester, the Islamic radical situation would only get worse, and since Russia isn't that far from Syria, might as well kill the Jihadis overseas than at home.

Me thinks the reason the USA wasn't too interested in fighting ISIS is because they had hoped they would carry out attacks in Russia...but that is just speculation at this point.

Post: #238

(10-06-2015 06:50 PM)Tex Pro Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 06:45 PM)Bona fide Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 05:34 PM)Guitarman Wrote:  I really think we've reached the point in the UK and USA where our own governments are the enemy and Putin and the Russians are looking like friends of the ordinary person.

Unless you a Russian of course.Because the intervention against radical muslims in a Farawaystan nobody-cares-about for ordinary Russians means just two things:
-less money for ordinary Russians (majority of whom already live in absolute poverty),forget about healthcare,pensions etc
-the bloody terror will return to the streets of Russia.Expect explosions, suicide bombers etc in Russian towns pretty soon.

This intervention will deliver 0 strategic results, as the war in Afganistan in 80s had. It will cost Russia dearly, both financially and in manpower. It might even be a final spark and ignite some sort of a coup détate in Russia.

Basically what we have here is a small minded man pissed off that nobody has been taking him serious in the west for a long time. People guessing what is Russia's hidden agenda in Syria. I think there is none.Support Assad just to spit in US face.Nothing more than that.

Wrong.

While there is some spite to Putin's actions in Syria, the Russians are also blocking a proposed Saudi/Qatar gas pipeline through Syria and fighting radical Islam at the same time.

If they were to leave the problem to fester, the Islamic radical situation would only get worse, and since Russia isn't that far from Syria, might as well kill the Jihadis overseas than at home.

Me thinks the reason the USA wasn't too interested in fighting ISIS is because they had hoped they would carry out attacks in Russia...but that is just speculation at this point.

Europe is really bathing in gas and the prices are forecast to remain low in the near future. If it is in fact the reason for backing Assad-than Putin is not very smart indeed.

The Russian analysts (independent ones not the Kremlin puppets blabbering on TV) themselves think that Putin simply continues the Soviet policy of supporting the Middle Eastern regimes opposing US and Israel, just for a sake of it.This dates back to 60s. See Yom Kippur War for example. All the leaders supported by Russia are dead now, Assad is the last one.

Post: #239

(10-06-2015 06:45 PM)Bona fide Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 05:34 PM)Guitarman Wrote:  I really think we've reached the point in the UK and USA where our own governments are the enemy and Putin and the Russians are looking like friends of the ordinary person.

Unless you a Russian of course.Because the intervention against radical muslims in a Farawaystan nobody-cares-about for ordinary Russians means just two things:
-less money for ordinary Russians (majority of whom already live in absolute poverty),forget about healthcare,pensions etc
-the bloody terror will return to the streets of Russia.Expect explosions, suicide bombers etc in Russian towns pretty soon.

The memories of the pointless war in Afganistan and catastrophic campaigns in Chechnya are still strong among Russians.

This intervention will deliver 0 strategic results, as the war in Afganistan in 80s did. It will cost Russia dearly, both financially and in manpower. It might even be a final spark and ignite some sort of a coup-d-étate in Russia. Russia has already suffered serious setbacks and loses in Ukraine. Syria will be the final drop IMO.The propaganda machine there is strong but so was the Soviet propaganda machine.

Basically what we have here is a small minded man pissed off that nobody has been taking him serious in the west for a long time. People guessing what is Russia's hidden agenda in Syria. I think there is none.Support Assad just to spit in US face.Nothing more than that.

I don't know, man. I'm not really seeing that.

I don't think you can compare the Russia of 2015 to the Russia of 1983. I don't see the Russians getting bogged down in some quagmire. No.

Putin is too smart for that. Despite what you're saying, he knows how to use the military to enhance foreign policy.

My proof? Look at the campaign against that little Western flunky rat in Georgia a few years ago. Remember that? Georgia tried to cause some trouble. Bush egged him on to start trouble, and Putin smacked his ass so hard that we never heard from him again.

And I don't see Russia's actions in Ukraine as any "failure." Far from it. They stepped in and stopped an attempted Western takeover of the country. That was America's little game. They wanted to install a pro-NATO puppet state on Russia's doorstep, so that they could open the country up to Western economic exploitation.

That's America's little game. Foment uprisings and rebellions in countries they don't like, and then try to get their feet in the door. They tried this game in Iran in the early 2000s, and the Iranians beat them.

Putin stepped in and crushed them. He totally outflanked them.

So, no, I don't agree with your assessment. And I'm not seeing how it's costing all these huge amounts of money, either. Russia can afford it. Afghanistan was a totally different situation.

.

Post: #240

Russia was going to have to get involved in Syria at some point.

Putin held off direct intervention for as long as possible. That is until the Iranians visited Moscow and told them it was put up or shut up time in regards to Assad.

The place is a cluster fuck regardless. Might as well shape the outcome since Syria is going to be partitioned at some point, more than likely. The USA has been playing a dirty game in the Middle East for some time now. It is about fucking time someone slapped the USA in the face and told them to fuck off.

Post: #241

(10-06-2015 07:02 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 06:45 PM)Bona fide Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 05:34 PM)Guitarman Wrote:  I really think we've reached the point in the UK and USA where our own governments are the enemy and Putin and the Russians are looking like friends of the ordinary person.

Unless you a Russian of course.Because the intervention against radical muslims in a Farawaystan nobody-cares-about for ordinary Russians means just two things:
-less money for ordinary Russians (majority of whom already live in absolute poverty),forget about healthcare,pensions etc
-the bloody terror will return to the streets of Russia.Expect explosions, suicide bombers etc in Russian towns pretty soon.

The memories of the pointless war in Afganistan and catastrophic campaigns in Chechnya are still strong among Russians.

This intervention will deliver 0 strategic results, as the war in Afganistan in 80s did. It will cost Russia dearly, both financially and in manpower. It might even be a final spark and ignite some sort of a coup-d-étate in Russia. Russia has already suffered serious setbacks and loses in Ukraine. Syria will be the final drop IMO.The propaganda machine there is strong but so was the Soviet propaganda machine.

Basically what we have here is a small minded man pissed off that nobody has been taking him serious in the west for a long time. People guessing what is Russia's hidden agenda in Syria. I think there is none.Support Assad just to spit in US face.Nothing more than that.

I don't know, man. I'm not really seeing that.

I don't think you can compare the Russia of 2015 to the Russia of 1983. I don't see the Russians getting bogged down in some quagmire. No.

Putin is too smart for that. Despite what you're saying, he knows how to use the military to enhance foreign policy.

My proof? Look at the campaign against that little Western flunky rat in Georgia a few years ago. Remember that? Georgia tried to cause some trouble. Bush egged him on to start trouble, and Putin smacked his ass so hard that we never heard from him again.

And I don't see Russia's actions in Ukraine as any "failure." Far from it. They stepped in and stopped an attempted Western takeover of the country. That was America's little game. They wanted to install a pro-NATO puppet state on Russia's doorstep, so that they could open the country up to Western economic exploitation.

That's America's little game. Foment uprisings and rebellions in countries they don't like, and then try to get their feet in the door. They tried this game in Iran in the early 2000s, and the Iranians beat them.

Putin stepped in and crushed them. He totally outflanked them.

So, no, I don't agree with your assessment. And I'm not seeing how it's costing all these huge amounts of money, either. Russia can afford it. Afghanistan was a totally different situation.

.

The revolution in Ukraine has happened simply because Yanukovich became too arrogant. As of 2012 it has become impossible to have any business in Ukraine as corruption was mind blowing.People have been kidnapped, businesses were closing because the extortion was unbearable.

West and USA do not play any role in it.If US was indeed so vicious in Ukraine they could supply some weapons at least.They haven not,despite the please from Ukrainian government and general public.There were some Canadian instructors training with Ukrainian but this is mainly due to historic ties between Canada and Ukraine (Ukrainians are historically the third ethnic minority in Canada).I am well informed on the state of Ukrainian armed forces and weapons and the only western weapons Ukraine has is non-lethal (like mines detection radars) and some old scrapped Saxon armored vehicles which Ukraine bought from the UK (they are practically given away).

The Russians had to back down in Ukraine significantly.Initially Putin announced that all the Russian speaking parts till Odessa will become some sort of a "Russian peoples republic". After a number of a staged protests and take overs in these Russian speaking cities have failed due to the opposition from locals (I was a witness to one) he had to back down and limit the operation to Donetsk and Lugansk (industrial and extremely criminal provinces populated by working class). Backed by Russia insurgency consisted of some locals and Russian volunteers (who either came to Ukraine to earn a bit of cash or naive to believe the Kremlin propaganda about Ukrainian "fascists" eating babies etc.Some of those stories were hilarious). Russia had started supplying weapons and building small groups of insurgency as back as 2011.So initially Putin expected that demoralized Ukrainian army won't engage in fighting. However, a strong volunteer movement in Ukraine and unexpected mobilization turned out to be very effective. Counter terrorist operation has swept almost 50% of Donetsk region.By the time Ukrainians were around Ilovaisk desperate Putin had to engage regular army. This is when Ukrainian army has experienced it's first set back and had to withdraw.Back than Ukrainian army was no much to Russians. Eventually, Putin and Ukraine signed a peace treaty.

The recent development are as following: Putin backed down on elections in the region and agreed to Ukrainian demands that elections to be on Ukrainian terms. Putin also agreed that Ukraine retains full sovereignty over the region.As of now the region is ruled by a quasi mob and the laws are unclear.There are two currencies. The old clans (previously closely allied to Yanukovich and Akhmetov) seem to have been returning.All active population has left (mostly to Kiev,Mariupol and Dnepropetrovsk in Ukraine).The region at the moment looks very sad.


The west meanwhile does not show much interest in Ukraine. The free trade agreement between Ukraine and EU is still not signed. The visa free regime is still not implemented.No weapons from USA have been seen.
Not much interest from western investors neither.

Post: #242

^Putin got a lot out of Ukraine.

He could have kept going, but he figured he play the long game instead:

Ukraine Is Being Told to Live With Putin

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/20...with-putin

Post: #243

(10-06-2015 07:30 PM)Tex Pro Wrote:  ^Putin got a lot out of Ukraine.

He could have kept going, but he figured he play the long game instead:

Ukraine Is Being Told to Live With Putin

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/20...with-putin

Old info buddy.Today (yesterday) Putin agreed that there to be no elections in the region in 2015.If they to take place in 2016 they will be on Ukrainian terms with full participation of Ukraine and Ukrainian parties.

Poroshenko is a smart SOB.He tries to avoid Bosnia option and keep on pushing for Croatia one (if you know anything about Yugoslavian conflict).

Putin could continue pushing further. The problem is that casualties had been growing fast and coffins started arriving in Russian towns.Also the local opposition turned out to be surprisingly strong (Putin naively expected Russian speaking Ukrainians to support Russia.Fail.).

Putin's game is to have as least military involvement in Ukraine as possible while keeping a puppet government in Donetsk.This will keep Ukraine in unstable situation meaning the foreign investors will stay away. it will also mean that the local puppets will be able to veto any Ukrainian international move or decision.
Ukrainian game is to avoid this.
As of recent news Putin already agrees that Donetsk won't be autonomous.Poroshenko seems to be winning. We will see.

Post: #244

(10-06-2015 07:34 PM)Bona fide Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 07:30 PM)Tex Pro Wrote:  ^Putin got a lot out of Ukraine.

He could have kept going, but he figured he play the long game instead:

Ukraine Is Being Told to Live With Putin

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/20...with-putin

Old info buddy.Today (yesterday) Putin agreed that there to be no elections in the region in 2015.If they to take place in 2016 they will be on Ukrainian terms with full participation of Ukraine and Ukrainian parties.

Poroshenko is a smart SOB.He tries to avoid Bosnia option and keep on pushing for Croatia one (if you know anything about Yugoslavian conflict).

There is nothing smart about Porkys plan.

His economy is rapidly dis-integrating. The idea that Ukraine will ever join the EU is a joke, and everyone knows it.

Putin basically wants to get Ukraine back on his terms just like he did with Georgia.

Post: #245

(10-06-2015 07:37 PM)Tex Pro Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 07:34 PM)Bona fide Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 07:30 PM)Tex Pro Wrote:  ^Putin got a lot out of Ukraine.

He could have kept going, but he figured he play the long game instead:

Ukraine Is Being Told to Live With Putin

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/20...with-putin

Old info buddy.Today (yesterday) Putin agreed that there to be no elections in the region in 2015.If they to take place in 2016 they will be on Ukrainian terms with full participation of Ukraine and Ukrainian parties.

Poroshenko is a smart SOB.He tries to avoid Bosnia option and keep on pushing for Croatia one (if you know anything about Yugoslavian conflict).

There is nothing smart about Porkys plan.

His economy is rapidly dis-integrating. The idea that Ukraine will ever join the EU is a joke, and everyone knows it.

Putin basically wants to get Ukraine back on its terms just like it did with Georgia.

It is not,really.Not much changed in Ukraine.The currency devaluated indeed but Rouble devaluated even more.The economy is forecast to grow next year by 1.5% (while Russian economy keeps falling).

Putin has already failed to get Ukraine on its terms.This is a fact.Now is the hardest part for Ukraine,let's see.Ukraine seems to be winning in Donetsk.

Couple it with the fact the Russian economy is in bad state and potentially disastrous campaign in Syria and we will possibly not see Putin as the head of Russia already next year.The next leader is likely to be more balanced and will be forced to withdraw from Ukraine and give back Crimea.

Post: #246

Time and time again when Russia responds to aggression the lying media tells us that Russia will now march to Kiev or Tblisi or Turkey or whatever fantasy they are currently concocting.

Time and time again we are told Putin is some irrational hate monger, I've heard the most absurd explanations in radio and TV, that Putin does things from an emotional narcissistic base and so on.

Time and time again, Putin does exactly as he says, acts fully rationally to protect Russian interests while time and time again making sure to use as little force as possible. This was true in Georgia, it was true in Ukraine, it is true in Syriah.

The US and its allies on the other hand carpetbomb everything into rubble, impose crippling sanctions and seems to be under absolutely zero rational operational command, instead killing hundreds of thousands of children to impose 'freedom and democracy' in some religious fervour.

Even if we accept that the US is mainly acting as the stupid bully being whispered to by manipulating Israel - which I do believe - then the US still acts in a very dangerous haphazard way which can never end in a mutually beneficial withdrawal with its enemy. Notice Russia always rather quickly seem to find diplomatic solutions to its enemies. That's because Putin acts in a clear rational manner, which is easily understood and makes easy and rational demands for peace.

Not so the US, which is impossible to understand. Gadaffi accepted blame for the Lockerbie bombing which may not even have been his. He held back the African invasion and got on good terms with a lot of European countries. The result, to be anally raped with a stack by some Al-Qaeda savage. Assad allows religious freedom, rights for women and even elections, and now he must go. The Sauds commit about half of all human rights violations, but are smooching and hugging with various US presidents.

How can we look at this and honestly claim it to be morally superior? It is anything but that and anyone with a minimum of empathy can understand how it must suck to be under the thumb of this irrational behemoth under full control of a 6 million strong middle east country.

Post: #247

(10-06-2015 07:42 PM)Bona fide Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 07:37 PM)Tex Pro Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 07:34 PM)Bona fide Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 07:30 PM)Tex Pro Wrote:  ^Putin got a lot out of Ukraine.

He could have kept going, but he figured he play the long game instead:

Ukraine Is Being Told to Live With Putin

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/20...with-putin

Old info buddy.Today (yesterday) Putin agreed that there to be no elections in the region in 2015.If they to take place in 2016 they will be on Ukrainian terms with full participation of Ukraine and Ukrainian parties.

Poroshenko is a smart SOB.He tries to avoid Bosnia option and keep on pushing for Croatia one (if you know anything about Yugoslavian conflict).

There is nothing smart about Porkys plan.

His economy is rapidly dis-integrating. The idea that Ukraine will ever join the EU is a joke, and everyone knows it.

Putin basically wants to get Ukraine back on its terms just like it did with Georgia.

It is not,really.Not much changed in Ukraine.The currency devaluated indeed but Rouble devaluated even more.The economy is forecast to grow next year by 1.5% (while Russian economy keep falling).

Putin has already failed to get Ukraine on its terms.This is a fact.Now is the hardest part for Ukraine,let's see.

Ukraine ain't joining the EU. Anyone who says otherwise is dreaming. Dreaming.

Also, everyone said Russian relations with Georgia would stay bad forever, and yet Putin was able to mend fences with a country he openly invaded (granted, the Georgians deserved it). Same will happen with Ukraine.

Regardless, the topic of this thread is Syria. There already exists a huge Ukraine conflict thread, so no point derailing this thread with off-topic discussion.

Post: #248

Putin is one of the few red pill leaders that are left in the world. I used to love the guy until the Russian planes blatantly violated our airspace. Turkey is basically the only NATO member ally of Russia, we enjoy great relations with Russia. They're going to build both of our Nuclear Reactors. A year ago Turkey flat out refused to enforce sanctions on Russia which the USA requested. Now Putin is fucking with us, for what reason may I ask? Does he want to lose his only friend in the NATO?

Post: #249

(10-06-2015 07:50 PM)Turkish Republican Wrote:  Putin is one of the few red pill leaders that are left in the world. I used to love the guy until the Russian planes blatantly violated our airspace. Turkey is basically the only NATO member ally of Russia, we enjoy great relations with Russia. A year ago Turkey flat out refused to enforce sanctions on Russia which USA requested. Now Putin is fucking with us, for what reason may I ask?

Turkey is trying to topple Assad. Blatantly so.

Up until recently, it allowed ISIS fighters to cross its territory with impunity into Syria. The Turks have been double dealing with the Russians for some time now. They pretend to be friends, but then turn around and stab the Russians in the back at the first chance they get.

Granted, nations always look out of their own interest first, but lets not pretend that Russia and Turkey are some great allies. They never were and never will be. Frenemies at best.

Post: #250

(10-06-2015 07:54 PM)Tex Pro Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 07:50 PM)Turkish Republican Wrote:  Putin is one of the few red pill leaders that are left in the world. I used to love the guy until the Russian planes blatantly violated our airspace. Turkey is basically the only NATO member ally of Russia, we enjoy great relations with Russia. A year ago Turkey flat out refused to enforce sanctions on Russia which USA requested. Now Putin is fucking with us, for what reason may I ask?

Turkey is trying to topple Assad. Blatantly so.

Up until recently, it allowed ISIS fighters to cross its territory with impunity into Syria. The Turks have been double dealing with the Russians for some time now. They pretend to be friends, but then turn around and stab the Russians in the back at the first chance they get.

Granted, nations always look out of their own interest first, but lets not pretend that Russia and Turkey are some great allies.

Well are you aware of the dynamics in the middle east? We're dealing with pro marxist Kurdish seperatists, the PKK. ISIS is a huge enemy of the PKK, Turkey might of covertly supported ISIS against PKK. The thing is ISIS doesn't go around killing Turkish soldiers, it doesn't engage in guerilla warfare against us.

I'm not trying to justify the atrocities ISIS is commiting, but ISIS isn't our biggest threat we don't need to actively pursue them. On the other hand, PKK is killing Turkish soldiers every single day.