Thanks for the tip Jay. Saw this range this morning on Bitstamp:

Quote:$283.88 - $298.05

If my technical analysis friends are right and $300 is a resistance point, it will be interesting what happens if it manages to break $300.

(07-11-2015 09:02 AM)SunW Wrote:  Thanks for the tip Jay. Saw this range this morning on Bitstamp:

Quote:$283.88 - $298.05

If my technical analysis friends are right and $300 is a resistance point, it will be interesting what happens if it manages to break $300.

Prices are certainly pushing on that $300 resistance point as I type, and depends on which exchange we use regarding our BTC price barometer.

Historically, in this thread, largely, we have been using Bitstamp as our btc price reference point - even though in about the past 6 months or so, there has been some questioning of Bitstamp as the price leader barometer.

Surely, I would be curious if any guy involved in this thread would like us to use some other exchange or index as a btc price barometer.

Prices broke $300 on bitstamp, and landed as high as $313.

As for prices, the major exchanges that I know of are Bitstamp, CoinDesk, and BTC-e. I think preev.com aggregates those and comes up with a price.

Quote:Price data is continually gathered from multiple markets. A weighted average price of these markets is shown by default (based on 24-hour trade volume). Alternatively, you can choose a specific source from the settings menu.

Can an American buy bitcoin at BTCChina? I know that one is big over there and it definitely is higher in price at the moment.

double

(07-12-2015 07:22 AM)SunW Wrote:  Prices broke $300 on bitstamp, and landed as high as $313.

As for prices, the major exchanges that I know of are Bitstamp, CoinDesk, and BTC-e. I think preev.com aggregates those and comes up with a price.

Quote:Price data is continually gathered from multiple markets. A weighted average price of these markets is shown by default (based on 24-hour trade volume). Alternatively, you can choose a specific source from the settings menu.

Can an American buy bitcoin at BTCChina? I know that one is big over there and it definitely is higher in price at the moment.

I am pretty sure that Americans can establish various accounts with various exchanges; however, as you suggest, SunW, there may be some exchanges that do NOT want to have american customers because they are worried about potential exposure to American Government institutions and laws. surely, there are ys around these barriers.

Nonetheless, it seems that your point about potential profitable ways to benefit from the various exchange rates may be more imaginary than practical. In this regard, there are a lot of quasi-professional traders that work these kinds of arbitrage channels, and surely, there systems are likely going to be somewhat better than any kind of average joe attempting to make profits out of such exchange rate differences.

On the other hand, I am certain that there are frequently profitable arbitrage avenues for any industrious, creative and innovative person to identify profitable avenues and to exploit such. In this regard, there would be risk and time issues and also a need to be able to work with btc and fiat and possibly even other cryptos in order to be able to transfer money around and potentially cash out with profits.

The potentially heavy regulation and scrutiny comes in the crypto space when you begin to cash out in fiat... and may NOT always be easy to employ various quasi-anonymous (if that is what you may want to accomplish) practices to avoid potential governmental scrutiny while cashing out realized profits.

We do NOT talk too much about other cryptos in this BTC thread; however, sometimes the price movements of the other cryptos can signal potential price movements in BTC, or even experience some considerable profit potentials.

The litecoin price movement over the last month is indicative of such... Yes, if a guy had timed it well, he could have gotten a good 4 x profit over the past month-ish buy merely buying low and selling high... alternatively, there may have been additional ways to play the downward price movements, as well.

Who knows what is going to happen to the near term future price direction of litecoin.

(06-22-2015 12:12 AM)BBinger Wrote:  I'm very active on the #bitcoin-assets IRC channel and there's a near consensus in the big holder circles that much of the present price depression is a natural effect of poor information on actual trades. Most bitcoin are never touching BitStamp, the Chicom exchanges (especially Bitfinex), or the new American wave of exchanges.

Interesting. I read the logs on a regular basis. What is your username?

Agree with your assessment of the price situation. The market signal-to-noise ratio is very poor and it is also my impression that most of the BTC changing hands are being traded OTC.

Been away for awhile, good to see this thread is still active. 2nd half of the year should be very interesting. Especially if masterluc from BTCtalk forum is right and historical wave III has indeed started.

(07-13-2015 08:23 PM)brg444 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 12:12 AM)BBinger Wrote:  I'm very active on the #bitcoin-assets IRC channel and there's a near consensus in the big holder circles that much of the present price depression is a natural effect of poor information on actual trades. Most bitcoin are never touching BitStamp, the Chicom exchanges (especially Bitfinex), or the new American wave of exchanges.

Interesting. I read the logs on a regular basis. What is your username?

Agree with your assessment of the price situation. The market signal-to-noise ratio is very poor and it is also my impression that most of the BTC changing hands are being traded OTC.

Been away for awhile, good to see this thread is still active. 2nd half of the year should be very interesting. Especially if masterluc from BTCtalk forum is right and historical wave III has indeed started.

Can you provide a link for the masterluc postings, BRG444?

(07-14-2015 12:34 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(07-13-2015 08:23 PM)brg444 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 12:12 AM)BBinger Wrote:  I'm very active on the #bitcoin-assets IRC channel and there's a near consensus in the big holder circles that much of the present price depression is a natural effect of poor information on actual trades. Most bitcoin are never touching BitStamp, the Chicom exchanges (especially Bitfinex), or the new American wave of exchanges.

Interesting. I read the logs on a regular basis. What is your username?

Agree with your assessment of the price situation. The market signal-to-noise ratio is very poor and it is also my impression that most of the BTC changing hands are being traded OTC.

Been away for awhile, good to see this thread is still active. 2nd half of the year should be very interesting. Especially if masterluc from BTCtalk forum is right and historical wave III has indeed started.

Can you provide a link for the masterluc postings, BRG444?

Sure, relevant posts here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=...sg11854820

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=...sg11848398

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=...sg11751638

(07-14-2015 01:06 AM)brg444 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 12:34 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(07-13-2015 08:23 PM)brg444 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 12:12 AM)BBinger Wrote:  I'm very active on the #bitcoin-assets IRC channel and there's a near consensus in the big holder circles that much of the present price depression is a natural effect of poor information on actual trades. Most bitcoin are never touching BitStamp, the Chicom exchanges (especially Bitfinex), or the new American wave of exchanges.

Interesting. I read the logs on a regular basis. What is your username?

Agree with your assessment of the price situation. The market signal-to-noise ratio is very poor and it is also my impression that most of the BTC changing hands are being traded OTC.

Been away for awhile, good to see this thread is still active. 2nd half of the year should be very interesting. Especially if masterluc from BTCtalk forum is right and historical wave III has indeed started.

Can you provide a link for the masterluc postings, BRG444?

Sure, relevant posts here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=...sg11854820

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=...sg11848398

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=...sg11751638

Thanks BRG.....

It's nice to see some of the technical analysis postings.... and yes, generally bullish, whether going with the predictions of near term peaks of below $1,200 or some of the predictions of other posters of $3,000 to $4,000 or even above $120k per BTC.

$3 to $4 k would be interesting and seems to be realistically possible within the coming year or 2 at the most.

I have linked my Circle account to both a banking account and to a credit card. When I attempt to make a bitcoin purchase, the Circle account defaults to the credit card. Accordingly, yesterday, I accidentally purchased some BTC via credit card, rather than through my bank account.

It appears that my credit card charged me an extra 2.9% fee for this luxury. Hopefully, no other fees (hidden or NOT) will be added on to my total, and maybe it will be a fairly inexpensive mistake, especially, when, in the near future, the prices of BTC go to $10k plus... hahahahaha.

(07-14-2015 08:20 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I have linked my Circle account to both a banking account and to a credit card. When I attempt to make a bitcoin purchase, the Circle account defaults to the credit card. Accordingly, yesterday, I accidentally purchased some BTC via credit card, rather than through my bank account.

It appears that my credit card charged me an extra 2.9% fee for this luxury. Hopefully, no other fees (hidden or NOT) will be added on to my total, and maybe it will be a fairly inexpensive mistake, especially, when, in the near future, the prices of BTC go to $10k plus... hahahahaha.

Quite impressive that you have accumulated so many bitcoins. Kudos on that.. you will be a very, very wealthy man if you manage to play your cards right during the upcoming bubbles.

I remember we both started buying at around the same time and it has been a tortuous way down since late 2013 but I have to say I admire your conviction and wish I could say I have as many as you do!

To the moon!

(07-14-2015 08:20 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  It appears that my credit card charged me an extra 2.9% fee for this luxury. Hopefully, no other fees (hidden or NOT) will be added on to my total, and maybe it will be a fairly inexpensive mistake, especially, when, in the near future, the prices of BTC go to $10k plus... hahahahaha.

I hope it doesn't go to $10k any time soon, as many of us at BTCJam would lose quite a bit, since borrowers would see that it's more rational to default. A slow climb to $350 - $400 isn't bad, especially if over a few years. With an interest rate range on 5-10% on loans, and some appreciation in the currency, the lender makes a prettier penny than if he was in the S&P.

Now, what it will be in twenty to thirty years, after all the QEs, bailouts and possible fiat currency crises, remains to be seen, but I suspect that it will be much, much higher than now.

(07-15-2015 09:51 AM)SunW Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 08:20 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  It appears that my credit card charged me an extra 2.9% fee for this luxury. Hopefully, no other fees (hidden or NOT) will be added on to my total, and maybe it will be a fairly inexpensive mistake, especially, when, in the near future, the prices of BTC go to $10k plus... hahahahaha.

I hope it doesn't go to $10k any time soon, as many of us at BTCJam would lose quite a bit, since borrowers would see that it's more rational to default. A slow climb to $350 - $400 isn't bad, especially if over a few years. With an interest rate range on 5-10% on loans, and some appreciation in the currency, the lender makes a prettier penny than if he was in the S&P.

Now, what it will be in twenty to thirty years, after all the QEs, bailouts and possible fiat currency crises, remains to be seen, but I suspect that it will be much, much higher than now.

There is simply no way, in my mind, that Bitcoin remains at 350-400$ in the coming years. That implies stagnation at at 5-6 B$ market cap and this would represent utter failure for Bitcoin from my point of view.

Bitcoin isn't built for "slow climbs". It has built in boom-bust cycles spawned by speculative manias following typical network technologies s-curve adoption models.

I will strongly reconsider my investment in Bitcoin if we haven't hit at least 10,000$ by the end of 2016.

(07-15-2015 10:14 AM)brg444 Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 09:51 AM)SunW Wrote:  [quote='JayJuanGee' pid='1065541' dateline='1436923252']It appears that my credit card charged me an extra 2.9% fee for this luxury. Hopefully, no other fees (hidden or NOT) will be added on to my total, and maybe it will be a fairly inexpensive mistake, especially, when, in the near future, the prices of BTC go to $10k plus... hahahahaha.

I will strongly reconsider my investment in Bitcoin if we haven't hit at least 10,000$ by the end of 2016.

Keeping this for the records.

Discussing bitcoin is fascinating because what attracts others doesn't always attract myself (and vice versa). I hold the very opposite view - if it goes up that high, that fast, something is very wrong.

Either way, your perspective about boom and bust like technology is fascinating and you may be right on the mone... bitcoin.

I'm going to start playing with this again next week. Also as far as making money ALT coins are the way to go as far as HODL BTC.

(07-15-2015 08:27 AM)brg444 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 08:20 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I have linked my Circle account to both a banking account and to a credit card. When I attempt to make a bitcoin purchase, the Circle account defaults to the credit card. Accordingly, yesterday, I accidentally purchased some BTC via credit card, rather than through my bank account.

It appears that my credit card charged me an extra 2.9% fee for this luxury. Hopefully, no other fees (hidden or NOT) will be added on to my total, and maybe it will be a fairly inexpensive mistake, especially, when, in the near future, the prices of BTC go to $10k plus... hahahahaha.

Quite impressive that you have accumulated so many bitcoins. Kudos on that.. you will be a very, very wealthy man if you manage to play your cards right during the upcoming bubbles.

I remember we both started buying at around the same time and it has been a tortuous way down since late 2013 but I have to say I admire your conviction and wish I could say I have as many as you do!

To the moon!

Surely, Bitcoin continues to seem pretty solid technically, and in that regard, many of us who have been following BTC fundamentals sense that some day a fairly decent next price bubble will come. I had continued to believe that such next bubble would be in the $3000 arena... even though in recent months I have been thinking that potentially it could take a year or two to achieve such a $3k price point and maybe even such next bubble would have a peak (as suggested by masterluc) in the sub $1,200 arena.

I had some of my own unexpected financial circumstances during the beginning of this calendar year, which caused me to buy quite a few fewer btc in the $200 price arena than I would have otherwise expected, even though I bought quite a lot of btc in the $300s.... well in essence I had been buying all the way down, and hardly selling any, except maybe carrying out a few transactions and then replacing whatever BTC I had used to make any purchases.

(07-15-2015 09:51 AM)SunW Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 08:20 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  It appears that my credit card charged me an extra 2.9% fee for this luxury. Hopefully, no other fees (hidden or NOT) will be added on to my total, and maybe it will be a fairly inexpensive mistake, especially, when, in the near future, the prices of BTC go to $10k plus... hahahahaha.

I hope it doesn't go to $10k any time soon, as many of us at BTCJam would lose quite a bit, since borrowers would see that it's more rational to default. A slow climb to $350 - $400 isn't bad, especially if over a few years. With an interest rate range on 5-10% on loans, and some appreciation in the currency, the lender makes a prettier penny than if he was in the S&P.

Now, what it will be in twenty to thirty years, after all the QEs, bailouts and possible fiat currency crises, remains to be seen, but I suspect that it will be much, much higher than now.

I do NOT disagree with your analysis SunW, except maybe I would characterize some of the financial markets a little differently.. and in that regard, even though the mainstream financial markets are likely to remain dominant in the next 30 years or so, as you suggested, but actually within those next 30 years, we are likely to have several periods of questionable confidences in such systems and crises that happen within such mainstream financial markets.

In other words, financial crises in mainstream are predictably unpredictable and sporadic and could happen at any time and cause some flocking to btc, crypto currencies and other assets that are potentially deflationary in nature. For example, there could be a mini explosion and devaluation in fiat confidence in the next 1-3 months that would extensively and meaningfully rock our worlds as we know it, which at the same time could cause a considerable appreciation (bubble) in the bitcoin space.

(07-15-2015 10:14 AM)brg444 Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 09:51 AM)SunW Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 08:20 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  It appears that my credit card charged me an extra 2.9% fee for this luxury. Hopefully, no other fees (hidden or NOT) will be added on to my total, and maybe it will be a fairly inexpensive mistake, especially, when, in the near future, the prices of BTC go to $10k plus... hahahahaha.

I hope it doesn't go to $10k any time soon, as many of us at BTCJam would lose quite a bit, since borrowers would see that it's more rational to default. A slow climb to $350 - $400 isn't bad, especially if over a few years. With an interest rate range on 5-10% on loans, and some appreciation in the currency, the lender makes a prettier penny than if he was in the S&P.

Now, what it will be in twenty to thirty years, after all the QEs, bailouts and possible fiat currency crises, remains to be seen, but I suspect that it will be much, much higher than now.

There is simply no way, in my mind, that Bitcoin remains at 350-400$ in the coming years. That implies stagnation at at 5-6 B$ market cap and this would represent utter failure for Bitcoin from my point of view.

Bitcoin isn't built for "slow climbs". It has built in boom-bust cycles spawned by speculative manias following typical network technologies s-curve adoption models.

I will strongly reconsider my investment in Bitcoin if we haven't hit at least 10,000$ by the end of 2016.

I think that there is a lot of historical support for this theory, and it is a little bit more bullish than my own current point of view. Nonetheless, I will NOT complain too much, if at all, if I am wrong and if such an outcome (as you are suggesting, BRG444) were to take place in or before the end of 2016 (which also coincides with the next halfing).

(07-15-2015 12:48 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  I'm going to start playing with this again next week. Also as far as making money ALT coins are the way to go as far as HODL BTC.

I generally agree that for traders, there is going to be a lot more potential in the coming months (and possibly year) to realize greater gains in the various alt coin markets because likely those market are going to be pumped and dumped considerably (just like litecoin has been in the last 4-6 weeks).

And, a lot of us realize the pump and dump potential of the alt coin markets to be a lot greater in part because the market caps are a lot smaller than bitcoin's market cap...

And it is also my sense that there is a lot of downward price pressure on BTC in part because large mainstream financial institutions are a lot more afraid of BTC and because of that, they are specifically and intentionally spending considerable resources in order to continue to attempt to keep btc prices down. Though as suggested by BRG444, some of those efforts of the mainstream financial institutions to keep BTC prices down are going to be challenged considerably in the near future, and these mainstream financial forces (bears) are going to have considerable difficulties (once the upward price momentum starts) to continue to suppress BTC prices.

We already seem to be in that transition with BTC, and in recent months, the bears have been losing the battle and we seem to be transitioning into a bull market in the btc world.

(07-13-2015 08:23 PM)brg444 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 12:12 AM)BBinger Wrote:  I'm very active on the #bitcoin-assets IRC channel and there's a near consensus in the big holder circles that much of the present price depression is a natural effect of poor information on actual trades. Most bitcoin are never touching BitStamp, the Chicom exchanges (especially Bitfinex), or the new American wave of exchanges.

Interesting. I read the logs on a regular basis. What is your username?

Agree with your assessment of the price situation. The market signal-to-noise ratio is very poor and it is also my impression that most of the BTC changing hands are being traded OTC.

Been away for awhile, good to see this thread is still active. 2nd half of the year should be very interesting. Especially if masterluc from BTCtalk forum is right and historical wave III has indeed started.

The best way to find out is to go there and ask.

Actually, I wanted to mention that my bitcoin purchase from a few days ago through Circle using my credit card, rather than direct debit, seems to have cost me an arm and a leg, nearly.

I only made a $100 purchase of bitcoin through that transaction; however, Circle charged $2.90 on the backend.

And then my credit card charged, three fees $10 cash advance fee $.15 interest on cash advance $3.01 interest on outstanding balance (luckily my outstanding balance was pretty low at the time, under $600). Today, when I noticed many of those additional fees on my statement, I checked with my credit card, and they said that they cannot do anything about it, yet I think that they are lying, but I am willing to go through the motions to check with Circle to see whether they can reverse the transaction and/or convert the credit card transaction over to a bank transaction. I doubt that I will receive an answer over the weekend, since Circle's support seems to be closed over the weekend. In any event, my credit card rep said that he would stop the accumulating of interest fees pertaining to my outstanding credit card outstanding amount, but still the total of the additional fees, so far, adds up to 16.06% additional fees for my $100 bitcoin purchase. Prices gotta go up, just to break even on that butt dial of a transaction.

I blame those fuckers at Circle for causing credit card to be default on the payment method when I do NOT even use credit card to purchase BTC... those fuckers... .

Wow, not cool.

Suggestion: only have a bank account set up and make sure the bank account has no cards set to it.

In general, if one of these exchanges ever had a major data compromise, I wouldn't want a primary account to be on the line. A bitcoin-only checking account makes it easy to turn off the spigots in a compromise.

(07-18-2015 07:41 AM)SunW Wrote:  Wow, not cool.

Suggestion: only have a bank account set up and make sure the bank account has no cards set to it.

In general, if one of these exchanges ever had a major data compromise, I wouldn't want a primary account to be on the line. A bitcoin-only checking account makes it easy to turn off the spigots in a compromise.

You may have the safer and better practice SunW... Yet, I am thinking that for the time being, I am going to keep my credit card linked within my circle account and just attempt to pay more attention to any transactions that I make.

Regarding your point about any potential attempts to make transactions through my credit card that are NOT authorized by me, I have some faith that this will NOT occur... On the other hand, I am going to continue to ponder over this point a bit in order to consider whether, at the time being, there is any upside to having one of my credit cards linked within my Circle account.,, especially, since at the time being (and I cannot really foresee any realistic future scenarios) I really DO NOT plan to purchase or sell bitcoins through my credit card.

(07-17-2015 11:24 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Actually, I wanted to mention that my bitcoin purchase from a few days ago through Circle using my credit card, rather than direct debit, seems to have cost me an arm and a leg, nearly.

I only made a $100 purchase of bitcoin through that transaction; however, Circle charged $2.90 on the backend.

And then my credit card charged, three fees $10 cash advance fee $.15 interest on cash advance $3.01 interest on outstanding balance (luckily my outstanding balance was pretty low at the time, under $600). Today, when I noticed many of those additional fees on my statement, I checked with my credit card, and they said that they cannot do anything about it, yet I think that they are lying, but I am willing to go through the motions to check with Circle to see whether they can reverse the transaction and/or convert the credit card transaction over to a bank transaction. I doubt that I will receive an answer over the weekend, since Circle's support seems to be closed over the weekend. In any event, my credit card rep said that he would stop the accumulating of interest fees pertaining to my outstanding credit card outstanding amount, but still the total of the additional fees, so far, adds up to 16.06% additional fees for my $100 bitcoin purchase. Prices gotta go up, just to break even on that butt dial of a transaction.

I blame those fuckers at Circle for causing credit card to be default on the payment method when I do NOT even use credit card to purchase BTC... those fuckers... .

Within the past hour, I did just get a response from Circle...

I do appreciate their fairly timely response, even though it is the weekend...



>>>>>>>>>>>>
"{_______} (Circle)
Jul {_______}

Hi {_______},

Thanks for reaching out!

I wish that we could interfere, however once a transaction is initiated there is no way to cancel it. In the future, make sure you check out which funding type you are using on the deposit page.

For more information feel free to check out this Help Center article.

Please let us know if there is anything else we can do to help.

Best,

__________, Team Circle"
<<<<<<<<<<<<<