Post: #26

I'm getting married in a couple months- honesty, responsibility and a strong sense of duty as wife are the 3 big ones for me.

Less important, but still required- financial stability, being enjoyable to be around, strong family support

Post: #27

(05-30-2015 11:35 AM)viajero Wrote:  If you're worried about it, the easiest thing to do is not get married.

Edit: sister and cousin 2 have the best advice.

I thought they all have great advice, especially the 82 year old saying to never marry an American woman.

Post: #28

(05-30-2015 10:04 PM)robreke Wrote:  I was reading "The Millionaire Mind" today and one of the chapters explains how choosing the right spouse is crucial if one wants to become a millionaire. Interestingly, the vast majority of millionaires are married (presumably happily) to the same spouse for a long time, usually for life. Most millionaires are married, not single or divorced.

The theme that occurred over and over when Millionaires were asked about their spouses and how their spouses contributed to their happiness and, indeed, financial success were that their spouses were:

Honest, Responsible, Loving, Capable and Supportive.

Those four themes occurred over and over amongst the millionaires interviewed.

There was one story about a very successful man who had been happily dating a woman for some time. They got along well, had similar interests, were attracted to each other and by all accounts she seemed a good, honest woman. He had intentions of marrying her. Then, he found out, due to a botched call from a credit company, that she was $ 35,000 in debt with student loans and had not been making any payments on them.

When he confronted her with this she hemmed and hawed at first saying it was no big deal. When he pressed her, she confessed that because she knew how wealthy and successful he was, she was planning on getting him to pay off the loans once they were married. She was going to keep the fact that she had all this debt under wraps under they were hitched. Disgusted by this feeling of dishonesty and betrayal he dumped her. Now single, he vows to vet any woman he is considering for marriage. The man said he would probably also want to do a credit check on any potential spouse in the future and he would be happy to show her his income statements and credit history as well.

So, to sum it up look for a girl who's : Honest, Responsible, Loving, Capable and Supportive. Oh yeah, and who you're attracted to and who is still years away from the wall and who is hopefully not whored out. Much tougher to do here in the West than anytime in history but, hopefully for the diligent and traditional minded man, still doable.

Honest, Responsible, Loving, Capable and Supportive.

What you're describing is a very specific and talented girl. As those are all individual skills that do take work and years of practice to develop to the point where she can actually help you advance and succeed in the trenches.

And as much as I love dating a wide variety of girls. (Don't we all)
Considering wife material is like finding a rare gemstone, you really have to
focus your efforts and your resources on winning that kind of girl.

Progress sometimes requires sacrifice.

Post: #29

One of the best things you can do with a potential wife is to do some travelling with them and don't coddle her. Rough it a bit and see how she takes it - when things are not easy you will have a better measure of her personality. Onto's example is PERFECT.

I think also to keep in mind - what you consider marriage material will always be a little different from what other people think.

It kinda goes without saying, but really do be careful. I was a bit too analytical getting married - my now wife at the time satisfied a lot of things on my check list:

1.) Good family
2.) Same religion - and same views of religion
3.) Low maintenance
4.) Not a drama queen
5.) Has pretty decent selection from (Honest, Responsible, Loving, Capable and Supportive.)
6.) Not culturally Canadian/American (was raised in the south pacific)

HOWEVER: She was barely attractive enough at 25 for my standards and after 3 pregnancies and poor diet choices her she is not in good physical shape. I care about my wife, but not being very physically attracted to her is a HUGE burden.

Other red flags:

Diabetes
Mental Health issues with relatives

Just say "No!"

I was I'd found the manosphere or what existed of it back in 2006.

Post: #30

A useful way to get hints into a girl's true character is to tell invented stories in the third person.

Girls love stories and gossip so this will go totally under the radar. If you make the story about her then you don't get the same honesty.

- The wife of your "friend" who doesn't put out anymore after she popped out kids. Your friend is considering leaving her but doesn't know what to do.
- Your classmate's fiancee who still sucks at cooking despite living with him for over a year. He is having second thoughts about marrying her.
- The wife who still takes selfies on her Facebook page every day and chats to random guys.

I do this all the time for LTR screening. It works really well.

Tell multiple stories over a reasonable time span to make sure.

A girl who is wife material will side with the man and criticize the woman.

If she isn't berating the imaginary girl for not treating her partner like a king then you should consider nexting her.

Post: #31

Keep reading these lists, and I'm not sure why you guys think girls are static.

If you out there seriously in the game, bagging chicks, you know that they make life changing decisions in a heartbeat.

WIA

Post: #32

You act a good question.

I think you know a girl is right for you when you see genuine loyalty from her. The type of loyalty that makes her stay with you through good and bad.

If there was a time in life when everything was going badly and she stuck by you and gave you support, that's a really good test of how genuine she is about you.
Until that type of challenge comes up, you can't say what she's really like. Any girl can be nice when things are good. It's when life hits the fan that you know
who your true friends are and when you know if the girl is committed to you.

Post: #33

You know, I just remembered a movie called a "Bronx Tale." Lilo Brancato was in the movie.

There's a scene that's relevant to us. Right before the main character is about to take a girl out, his mentor gives him some advice.





The point of the video is that a woman shouldn't be selfish. She needs to be considerate and go out of her way to please her
man and think of him before thinking of herself. When you get a girl who's genuine about pleasing you and taking care of you,
that's a very good sign.

Post: #34

OK here's one for the group:

You met a girl you like. She's a solid 5 fat girl. However she's really into you and starts doing whatever it takes to lose the weight. She gets up early in the morning to hit the gym with you and lift free weights. After a year and a half of training she has lost a lot of weight, but is still a somewhat "thick" girl. Think 205 to 185 pounds.

She was a virgin when she met you and some what socially awkward. You two can spend oodles of time together and have a good social rapport. You agree on a lot of things and she defers to your decision making when you insist on it. She enjoys the captain first mate dynamic.

She wants children and wants to name them after people in your family.

She has a strong family and religious background. Except you can't stand her family for various reasons and her religious background is of the "let's gays marry" type.

You have the option of taking her with you to your new out of the country place. You don't "love" her in that cocaine'd teenage love way but more of a steady dedication where you know she would make an excellent mother. The sex isn't very good. Let's just say you'll still gawk at other women.

Do you pull the string and take her to your new location? Maybe consider something long term?

Post: #35

Quote:OK here's one for the group:

You met a girl you like. She's a solid 5 fat girl. However she's really into you and starts doing whatever it takes to lose the weight. She gets up early in the morning to hit the gym with you and lift free weights. After a year and a half of training she has lost a lot of weight, but is still a somewhat "thick" girl. Think 205 to 185 pounds.

She was a virgin when she met you and some what socially awkward. You two can spend oodles of time together and have a good social rapport. You agree on a lot of things and she defers to your decision making when you insist on it. She enjoys the captain first mate dynamic.

She wants children and wants to name them after people in your family.

She has a strong family and religious background. Except you can't stand her family for various reasons and her religious background is of the "let's gays marry" type.

You have the option of taking her with you to your new out of the country place. You don't "love" her in that cocaine'd teenage love way but more of a steady dedication where you know she would make an excellent mother. The sex isn't very good. Let's just say you'll still gawk at other women.

Do you pull the string and take her to your new location? Maybe consider something long term?

She needs to lose the last 25 pounds, and preferably in 6 months, but yes

Call me weird too, but when I dated a virgin I was worried if she secretly wanted to try having sex with someone else

Dating girls who've been pumped and dumped by an alpha or two already means they know how quick guys are to toss them, and they know Im better in bed.

Slightly off topic, I know

Post: #36

(05-31-2015 07:24 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  The sex isn't very good. Let's just say you'll still gawk at other women.

Do you pull the string and take her to your new location? Maybe consider something long term?

Great, satisfying sexual chemisty is one of the cornerstones of a relationship.

This is what was lacking in the LTR I mentioned earlier, who I decided not to marry. It was actually never there to begin with, but I hoped over time sexual attraction to her would develop. After almost 3 years it didn't, and I realized how necessary it was.

Damn shame, because she was a gem in all other respects. Maybe if I were in my 60s-70s it wouldn't have mattered so much but when you're relatively young it does.

Post: #37

(05-31-2015 07:24 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  OK here's one for the group:

You met a girl you like. She's a solid 5 fat girl. However she's really into you and starts doing whatever it takes to lose the weight. She gets up early in the morning to hit the gym with you and lift free weights. After a year and a half of training she has lost a lot of weight, but is still a somewhat "thick" girl. Think 205 to 185 pounds.

She was a virgin when she met you and some what socially awkward. You two can spend oodles of time together and have a good social rapport. You agree on a lot of things and she defers to your decision making when you insist on it. She enjoys the captain first mate dynamic.

She wants children and wants to name them after people in your family.

She has a strong family and religious background. Except you can't stand her family for various reasons and her religious background is of the "let's gays marry" type.

You have the option of taking her with you to your new out of the country place. You don't "love" her in that cocaine'd teenage love way but more of a steady dedication where you know she would make an excellent mother. The sex isn't very good. Let's just say you'll still gawk at other women.

Do you pull the string and take her to your new location? Maybe consider something long term?

I couldn't do it. Physical attraction and good sex are the most important aspects to me of all. They're not the only things, but without those, I can't begin to consider her character , no matter how good it is. Don't settle.

That's just me.

Post: #38

Who cares?

- Does she come from a Strong Family ™ that she would be careful not to cheat or do anything stupid?

- Does she do/work something useful. For example, doctor, reduce your health bills. Or Lawyer, takes care of your legal stuff.

- Does she make enough money to support herself, and some of the child expenses. And to make sure that on Divorce, you don't pay all the bills?

- Is her family rich/strong/connected so you can grow professionally?

- Is she at least a 7 and 23-26 age?

I don't really get guys that want to marry a submissive/feminine women. There is no such thing. The more submissive, the worse is the deal.

Women will fade in a few years (5-10) and then you are left with an ugly/impatient bitch. Think about what her family/job/connections/intelligence will bring.

You are not fucking a women. You are marrying one.

Post: #39

And if you are looking for a women to wash your clothes, cook, be good to you and all that shit:

1. Grow up.

2. Find a submissive 9.5 asian when you are on a business "trip" for a couple days flick.

3. Hire a maid at home. Don't fuck the maid.

Post: #40

(05-30-2015 11:23 PM)Apollo21 Wrote:  

(05-30-2015 10:04 PM)robreke Wrote:  I was reading "The Millionaire Mind" today and one of the chapters explains how choosing the right spouse is crucial if one wants to become a millionaire. Interestingly, the vast majority of millionaires are married (presumably happily) to the same spouse for a long time, usually for life. Most millionaires are married, not single or divorced.

The theme that occurred over and over when Millionaires were asked about their spouses and how their spouses contributed to their happiness and, indeed, financial success were that their spouses were:

Honest, Responsible, Loving, Capable and Supportive.

Those four themes occurred over and over amongst the millionaires interviewed.

There was one story about a very successful man who had been happily dating a woman for some time. They got along well, had similar interests, were attracted to each other and by all accounts she seemed a good, honest woman. He had intentions of marrying her. Then, he found out, due to a botched call from a credit company, that she was $ 35,000 in debt with student loans and had not been making any payments on them.

When he confronted her with this she hemmed and hawed at first saying it was no big deal. When he pressed her, she confessed that because she knew how wealthy and successful he was, she was planning on getting him to pay off the loans once they were married. She was going to keep the fact that she had all this debt under wraps under they were hitched. Disgusted by this feeling of dishonesty and betrayal he dumped her. Now single, he vows to vet any woman he is considering for marriage. The man said he would probably also want to do a credit check on any potential spouse in the future and he would be happy to show her his income statements and credit history as well.

So, to sum it up look for a girl who's : Honest, Responsible, Loving, Capable and Supportive. Oh yeah, and who you're attracted to and who is still years away from the wall and who is hopefully not whored out. Much tougher to do here in the West than anytime in history but, hopefully for the diligent and traditional minded man, still doable.

Honest, Responsible, Loving, Capable and Supportive.

What you're describing is a very specific and talented girl. As those are all individual skills that do take work and years of practice to develop to the point where she can actually help you advance and succeed in the trenches.

And as much as I love dating a wide variety of girls. (Don't we all)
Considering wife material is like finding a rare gemstone, you really have to
focus your efforts and your resources on winning that kind of girl.

Progress sometimes requires sacrifice.

^"those are all individual skills that do take work and years of practice to develop"

I beg to differ. Honesty, Responsibility, Lovingness, Capability and supportiveness are not "skills" They are character traits. They are, for the most part, a natural part of her innate character and upbringing. They are instilled in her being. A woman has them or doesn't. I suppose a dishonest, unresponsible, etc person could be taught to be more honest and responsible over the years, but if they were that way to begin with it's in their character.

That's the point of finding a woman with these character traits. They're part of her being.

Albeit, with hypergamy and the nature of women being what it is, you can never fully trust a woman won't change based on her emotional state or because of a new environment you bring her into. Therefore a man can never let his guard down or cease from using LTR game. But, finding a woman who you're convinced has these character qualities should make the partnership much easier and sustainable long term than if you tried with a woman lacking them.

Post: #41

(05-31-2015 08:33 AM)robreke Wrote:  

(05-30-2015 11:23 PM)Apollo21 Wrote:  

(05-30-2015 10:04 PM)robreke Wrote:  I was reading "The Millionaire Mind" today and one of the chapters explains how choosing the right spouse is crucial if one wants to become a millionaire. Interestingly, the vast majority of millionaires are married (presumably happily) to the same spouse for a long time, usually for life. Most millionaires are married, not single or divorced.

The theme that occurred over and over when Millionaires were asked about their spouses and how their spouses contributed to their happiness and, indeed, financial success were that their spouses were:

Honest, Responsible, Loving, Capable and Supportive.

Those four themes occurred over and over amongst the millionaires interviewed.

There was one story about a very successful man who had been happily dating a woman for some time. They got along well, had similar interests, were attracted to each other and by all accounts she seemed a good, honest woman. He had intentions of marrying her. Then, he found out, due to a botched call from a credit company, that she was $ 35,000 in debt with student loans and had not been making any payments on them.

When he confronted her with this she hemmed and hawed at first saying it was no big deal. When he pressed her, she confessed that because she knew how wealthy and successful he was, she was planning on getting him to pay off the loans once they were married. She was going to keep the fact that she had all this debt under wraps under they were hitched. Disgusted by this feeling of dishonesty and betrayal he dumped her. Now single, he vows to vet any woman he is considering for marriage. The man said he would probably also want to do a credit check on any potential spouse in the future and he would be happy to show her his income statements and credit history as well.

So, to sum it up look for a girl who's : Honest, Responsible, Loving, Capable and Supportive. Oh yeah, and who you're attracted to and who is still years away from the wall and who is hopefully not whored out. Much tougher to do here in the West than anytime in history but, hopefully for the diligent and traditional minded man, still doable.

Honest, Responsible, Loving, Capable and Supportive.

What you're describing is a very specific and talented girl. As those are all individual skills that do take work and years of practice to develop to the point where she can actually help you advance and succeed in the trenches.

And as much as I love dating a wide variety of girls. (Don't we all)
Considering wife material is like finding a rare gemstone, you really have to
focus your efforts and your resources on winning that kind of girl.

Progress sometimes requires sacrifice.

^"those are all individual skills that do take work and years of practice to develop"

I beg to differ. Honesty, Responsibility, Lovingness, Capability and supportiveness are not "skills" They are character traits. They are, for the most part, a natural part of her innate character and upbringing. They are instilled in her being. A woman has them or doesn't. I suppose a dishonest, unresponsible, etc person could be taught to be more honest and responsible over the years, but if they were that way to begin with it's in their character.

That's the point of finding a woman with these character traits. They're part of her being.

Albeit, with hypergamy and the nature of women being what it is, you can never fully trust a woman won't change based on her emotional state or because of a new environment you bring her into. Therefore a man can never let his guard down or cease from using LTR game. But, finding a woman who you're convinced has these character qualities should make the partnership much easier and sustainable long term than if you tried with a woman lacking them.

That's a good start for finding wife material, however character traits aren't enough.
A good woman has to demonstrate that she can be loving, responsible, capable etc
in a way that actually helps you.

Just like no matter how passionate you are about football, you're not going to be a NFL quarterback
if you can't throw. And a great woman has to demonstrate she can help you by actually helping you.

I agree that there are women out there who can also ruin you...however
that has been the case for thousands of years. Just ask Samson and Delilah.

Samson had extremely poor judgement and chose the wrong woman to marry
who just so happened to be working for his enemies.

And despite all the obvious warning signs(i.e ambushes), he tells her the secret to his strength
and she cuts off all his hair while he sleeps and immediately summons his enemies (again)
who finally capture him.

The moral is, you have to develop and practice good judgement if you want to find
and marry the right woman.

Post: #42

(05-31-2015 08:07 AM)almohajem Wrote:  - Does she do/work something useful. For example, doctor, reduce your health bills. Or Lawyer, takes care of your legal stuff.

I don't really get guys that want to marry a submissive/feminine women. There is no such thing. The more submissive, the worse is the deal.

You obviously have a lot to learn.

And I find it funny that you think someone can just turn up in Asia on a business trip and bang a "9.5". How much experience do you have with women?

Post: #43

(05-31-2015 07:24 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  The sex isn't very good.

W/O sounding like a caveman, the point of a marriage is to have children.

If you're not interested in the act with this girl, none of the rest matters.

WIA

Post: #44

I've been with 2 girls that were wife material.

One I dated in my 20s. She had 2 kids already so that was a no go for me.

The other in my 30s...she was muslim and practising. I just envisioned problems down the road so pulled the plug.

What did they have in common? Pure devotion to me. Their happiness was being with me. When I remember breaking with the one with kids she even said 'i don't ever want to get married or anything, I just need to be with you'. That was a tough day believe me.

It's been maybe 8 years out since the most recent of those 2 relationships..and both will call/text me on my birthday & find reasons to message me now and again.

Post: #45

(05-31-2015 10:00 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-31-2015 07:24 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  The sex isn't very good.

W/O sounding like a caveman, the point of a marriage is to have children.

If you're not interested in the act with this girl, none of the rest matters.

WIA

Not to derail, but every chick that I've had a relationship with where the sex was phenomenal (and other non-sex aspects healthy), the longevity of the relationship has been left wanting - like the fire has burned too bright, too quickly.

In my experience, I've had better results with LTR's where the sex has been good/satisfying, just not refractory-period-defying like the aforementioned.

Post: #46

Amazing high quality debate here.

Another interesting thing my brother-in-law told me:

I made a poor choice in marrying the wrong kind of woman partly because of my mother. Not that she's to blame, but that I really wanted to believe in the so-called fairy tale that I hastily fell in love and married a girl without thinking rationally about her history, background, family, traits, etc.

So what does my mother have to do with it? She is total wife material and stuck by my dad from day one until his last breath at his bedside.

When my dad got sick with a particularly difficult type of cancer, she would sleep in the hospital room on an uncomfortable bench and not go home for month-long stretches. She's help the nurses out with the IV, getting him up to go to the bathroom, get food for him, make sure he stayed hydrated, and replace the hospital bed sheets.

I witnessed all this throughout his 3 year battle with cancer, until he finally succumbed. It showed me my mom's true colors. Her perseverance, true loyalty, unwavering love and devotion. That's what I want in a wife, but I have no clue how to find it in a woman after a month or a year of knowing her. They can ACT devoted, but as Onto raised this point, when shit really hits the fan, her true colors come out. Just thinking about this often brings me to tears. My dad died 7 years ago, and my mom STILL wears her wedding ring to this day.

When my ex-wife's true colors came out, it wasn't pretty. When we first moved in together, I got sick with a nasty lung infection that turned into pneumonia. When the infection first began, I told her that I may need to go to the doctor if it didn't get better in a few days. She practically scoffed and said that I'm just faking it to get her attention. That was the first clue that I had married the wrong person (ok, second clue, the first being that she already had a kid and her family wasn't exactly ideal). Looking back on this, it makes me fucking angry and disgusted with myself for putting up with it.

Back to what my brother-in-law said: seeing what my mom did made me want to find a woman like that so bad that I made a hasty decision. In addition, he said it also had the effect of raising my hopes and expectations that a lot of women were like that, but in actuality they weren't even close to capable of providing this kind of devoted love towards a man.

He said this right after my aunt's "don't marry an American" quip. This also seems to tie in with Roosh's recent post about guys with good mothers and families don't seem to do as well with women as guys from dysfunctional families.

Post: #47

^^ CleanSlate, good post. I want what my parent's have so it does set a high bar. But at least you got to see what a quality relationship looks like.

Regarding the "guys with good mothers and families don't seem to do as well with women as guys from dysfunctional families." From my observations and experiences, it is a bird of a feather and familiarity thing. Not to disrespect any guys on the forum, but if you are fucked up you get along with fucked up really well. It is a natural state and you are familiar with the routine. You have a natural understanding of how those people are wired. And they will probably continue the cycle if they get married and have kids. Once again, not trying to be a dick. Nobody is perfect and no one has the ideal set of traits. We are born imperfect. Our egos may tell us otherwise. But an introspective man can accomplish a lot by applying effort to what he wants to improve.

Post: #48

As far as LTR's go, the kind of woman we get involved with and the type of relationship we have with them can often be traced back to our own relationship to our parents and their relationship to each other.

It's all we had to learn from. At some point in our childhood a question is raised within us. "Is this the way it should be?

We then unconsciously live out our adult life, creating it in such a way as to get back to that question(s) we had as a child to either:

1) Affirm that's the way it should've been

or

2) Fix what we thought was wrong.

Problem is, as a child we don't have the wisdom to know why things were the way they were. As adults now, we find ourselves in a big mess, but can finally understand why Mom or Dad or the Family dynamic was the way it was back then.

Like that quote from "The Matrix"...."It's the question that drives us"

Post: #49

There is some great advice in this thread, most of the time a marriage material thread has broken down into "why would you want to get married, FTW player for life!" posturing.

If I were to revisit how I tested my LTRs I think I would focus on cleanslate and Onto's examples of "how do they behave under pressure/crisis". Go for a long hike when you know its going to rain and see what she does when you have to walk 2 miles out in a thunderous downpour. See what she does if a family member of yours passes away. Last and one of the easiest...see what she does when you are sick. The same way she treats you, will be how she treats your kids when they are injured or ill.

Post: #50

I can imagine at some point in the future, some guy on here is gonna want to get married and puts up a post like, "I need to stage a kidnapping of me and my LTR and in the end I need to beat two guys up to test my future wife. Who is willing to help?"

In all seriousness, my mom has always told me, marry someone who has suffered. Not someone who enjoys suffering, not someone who seeks it, but someone was experienced it and knows life has struggles/difficulties and that you have to work through them, not just quit.