Post: #26

It certainly is a concern if that's where things are heading, but women remain approachable in other contexts day game, night game, social circles. I have some pretty good pics on okCupid and Tinder and get 3-4 dates a week but only with up to 7s or so. I genuinely have no idea where the hotter girls are online if they even do exist on there they certainly don't need it. Think online is mainly the 4-7 girls fishing for cock and many, often deluded, girls looking for something more serious. I have to get through countless of girls even with half naked beach photos to get dates, there is no doubt the bar there is very high for 6s and 7s on guys' looks.

As shallow as men are, women are absolutely shallow as fuck particularly online. You'd see many couple in the streets and for most you'd think there's no fucking way she'd even consider him if she saw his pictures online. Certainly if you can bang 6s and 7s online you can bang 8s in real life. I have had some good bangs from online but online game often leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth, I honestly believe day game is genuinely where it's at and ourselves at this level should be utilising it more and reaping the rewards.

Post: #27

You are getting 3-4 dates per week online so you must be an 8+ tall white guy. Most guys struggle to get even 1 date in a month.

I don't see day game as a panacea. Women compartmentalize men based on the context in which they meet, and a day game number is no better than night game or online - he's still a "random" at the end of the day. There are plenty of guys here who've day game approached hundreds of girls here with 0 bangs.

Post: #28

Quote:Jaffna (Tamil: யாழ்ப்பாணம் Yalpanam, Sinhalese: යාපනය Yāpanaya ) is the capital city of the Northern Province of Sri Lanka.

Post: #29

But are you doing day game to be able to write it off like that? I'm very much in favour of people working on their bodies, their fashion, their looks and their finances, but never once have I came home and thought to myself that any of the above were the reason I didn't pull. Anytime I've lost a girl it's because I didn't persevere enough, wasn't agressive / dominant enough, wasn't confident and at ease enough, or simply because of logistics. Stop doing online - it's not natural and takes all the joy out of the process.

Post: #30

(05-08-2015 02:37 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  "In order to bang a woman you must satisfy her minimum looks threshold."

False premise. More game denialism.

But bigger than that, reality denialism.

And folks should really give Chris @ Good Looking Loser props for coming up with the term, as wrongheaded as it might be in my estimation.

This whole "sky is falling"/internet armageddon analysis HELPS NO ONE.

Social programming at its finest, and now we have an agent of the oppressor amongst us.

Internet messages and movie themes have men convinced that they have to look like African (or Norse/Greek) gods in order to bang frumpy fives. His life has to be more exciting than a secret agent/ninja/pirate. More money than Carlos Slim and Bill Gates.

Meanwhile, there are many examples of average men sleeping with women in general, hot women in particular, in their DAILY lives.

Men are choosing not to see it.

They choose to believe that they can not live that reality that is in front of them.

Most of these guys who manage to live these "miracles" don't know a lick of game.

I'd go so far as to say, the average man doesn't need game AT ALL.

Game is for guys that want more than to just "bang a chick". It's for high #'s or getting next to dream girls. (all of which is ego stroking, most of which only provides a momentary thrill. But we've told those tales before)

What does the average man need?

He needs courage. That's it.

That courage, that bravery, that sense of self worth continues to be beat out of you at every angle.

Posts like these, Men's Health Magazines, Blogs and internet products willing to sell you the secrets for $597.00 bucks.

No.

Just no.

The truth is that most men aren't even approaching women with the volume and frequency necessary for a simple sexual relationship. A couple of swipes on Tinder, a few copy and paste messages on OkCupid, some drunken awkward approaches at the end of the night at some horrible weekend dance club - is not enough. Nor is crushing on girls he grew up with, work with, or sees in his daily life.

He is scared of really going after what he wants in life.
Many guys who frequent game forums and buy products and have long debates are also afraid.

If a man is to afraid to stop a girl from worshiping her glowing LED god, he deserves whatever he gets.

And so does she.

WIA

Post of a lifetime.

Look day to day and see how many guys are really approaching and doing the numbers game. Answer: close to none. Online thirst happens because guys don't have balls in real life and street harassment is an urban myth. Thing is you can tell who is approaching and who is not by the way they talk to women and that tends to be enough proof. Courage is key before anything else.

Post: #31

(05-08-2015 03:23 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(05-07-2015 10:32 PM)Jaffna Wrote:  In order to bang a woman you must satisfy her minimum looks threshold.

In Second and Third World countries, men can use money and status to compensate for looks. Since these women are poorer and dependent on men for resources, the minimum looks threshold is quite low.
....
As a result of this evolution, the minimum looks threshold required for men to "game" women has gone way up in the last 5 years. If you don't make the cut in terms of looks, you're not getting it in. And the looks bar has been raised higher than ever.

...
Thoughts?

Yes - my first thought is that you are an obvious Game denier. My second thought is that you really don't approach in any decent volume or get laid - neither in 2009 nor in 2014. If you have to put "game" in quotation marks, then it is obvious.

Another point is that there are less prosperous countries where local men are good-looking and thus the country-wide looks-threshold is higher. However those variations are more in other areas that you did not mention and they have not changed that drastically. If most men start working out and the beach body is visible all year long, then it may have some impact on it, but that process happened over years and years (Brazil).

But I don't think that the looks-threshold is raised by any noticable degree through modern media. Sure - she may have had access to the muscular good-looking guy on Tinder once and he may have fucked her when drunk, but she would not be able to secure anything from him.

The looks-threshold as promoted by GLL has some valid points, but it manifests itself in almost complete instant rejection. If you don't get that instantly then you always have a foot in the door. For a worldwide male looks-threshold to be raised you would need all the men get a bump up in workout, in facial beauty etc. - this certainly has not happened.

As WIA pointed out - Tinder-swiping a model is not getting approached by a model on a daily basis. And Game-deniers are bad at dispensing knowledge.

The new technologies have impacted flakiness, because through online apps women seem to have more options on the fuck-ladder, also it scatter-brains them more. The numbers Game is prevalent online where any Omega can send hundreds of messages to hotties - that very same bloke approaches zero women in real life and probably spends his days sifting through blogs and then writing comments against Game while going on forum like this one and putting "game" in quotation marks.

What definitely has happened is that many online dating sites have become much worse due to the mentioned mass-swiping of men. When hot girls tell me that they delete apps, because they get 200 messages in some hours (!) and they consider putting up more ugly pics of themselves, then this part of the dating world has indeed become much worse. So yeah - I'll give you that - the online dating looks threshold due to massive spam clicking has decreased, because getting 300 dick-offers a day makes women more selective. But the same broad is not getting approached even once in the real world, so it has a limited effect in reality.

Also Mixter X - Game is not a trend - the Game teachings are ancient - they would have resulted in bangs in Rome as well as in the court of Louis IX. Grooming trends and wardrobe change, but not Game itself. If you have optimized your look, then you have just done that - you have not learned Game at all. The MGTOW going your own way and "rejecting all sluts" won't change a thing. Women can happily fuck 40% of the male population while 60% can be MGTOW. The 40% will just have harems. This is not a viable alternative.

The phenomenon of the plethora of choice that online dating has opened up is very real. This is the result of smartphones and dating apps like Tinder. Also, the extra amount of information, distractions and social networking demands have definitely increased the flakiness of women.

In today's complex, highly random world with extreme networking, cascading, and winner-take-all effects, the tautological linear thinking that permeates the game community today is not going to work most of the time. The naïvely optimistic linear equation of "Do X action to get Y result" is at best charlatan and at worst naive to your psyche.

You can definitely groom, get some inner strength and wisdom and get your life together, but beyond that it is a random numbers game. There is a fallacy that is a trademark of the community which goes as follows:

1. We observe that alpha men (who happen to get attractive women) are confident & unaffected.
2. We conclude that men who are confident & unaffected get attractive woman

We all know a pseudo-"alpha" guy who acts confident and unaffected but still can't get the attractive women he desires. I know a lot of these puffed up, overconfident, naively hubristic types, and even the ones I don't know I can smell a mile away.

The problem is confidence and unaffectedness is the result of success and not the other way around. And even if they are a necessary condition for success, they are definitely not proven to be a sufficient condition. To avoid falling for survivorship bias, one should not ignore the unobserved sample - those who are confident and unaffected and yet failed because of bad luck or bad looks or any other random circumstance. There simply is so much one can do when it comes to improving looks and getting your act together and taking your chances.

Post: #32

(05-09-2015 07:04 AM)Jaffna Wrote:  You are getting 3-4 dates per week online so you must be an 8+ tall white guy. Most guys struggle to get even 1 date in a month.

I am a tall white guy, not sure about the 8+ but I do have an athletic/slim build.

Post: #33

He finally reveals his true colours.

Post: #34

(05-09-2015 06:17 AM)Jaffna Wrote:  ^ Yes. To further formalize: it's the gender imbalance you have in plain old nature, reincarnated in this high-technology form.

The new point of balance might well be a bunch of 9-10 guys, each with a harem of 7-10 girls. The girls will be satisfied, because once every 1-2 weeks they get banged well and hard by an experienced guy they find hot. The guys are obviously satisfied since they get to bang a different cute girl every day of the week. Guys who are 7 or lower get nothing.

Yes, there is potential for this.

Quote:The concern is that online is going to negate the advantage of game, especially stuff like the ability to boldly approach. It's going to be all about the pictures, and maybe some clever text.

Just because a lot of girls are dating online, doesn't stop you from physically approaching them in the street or at Whole Foods.

Girls may be doing more and more online dating, but that doesn't mean that a proper approach by a guy with solid game (no matter what he looks like) isn't going to make their panties wet.

(05-09-2015 07:04 AM)Jaffna Wrote:  You are getting 3-4 dates per week online so you must be an 8+ tall white guy. Most guys struggle to get even 1 date in a month.

Hmmmmm......

Quote:I don't see day game as a panacea. Women compartmentalize men based on the context in which they meet, and a day game number is no better than night game or online - he's still a "random" at the end of the day. There are plenty of guys here who've day game approached hundreds of girls here with 0 bangs.

How many day game approaches do you attempt each week?

Better yet, how many day game approaches have you attempted in your life time?

Post: #35

Post: #36

Sorry if this post is a bit unstructured, I've been studying too long.

I think a lot of these posts are great, but some suffer from black and white thinking. People's thinking patterns and decision making processes are complex and highly dependent on the input they receive. Even if a woman is being approached in the street in the day time (by a guy with game), she will factor into her thinking multiple things; this includes "Oh I got a few dates lined up already this week from Tinder/OkC." It's not like online stimulus is completely separate. Yes he may be able to give her some tingles and stronger emotions, but the question is if it will win out on an already sure thing that is closer to their comfort zone.

The effect of technology and social media has drastically made the issue worse because EVERYTHING is seen now. Therefore women will be wanting to show off their man on social media. If the woman is attractive and high quality, she will rarely be with a guy who is both unattractive and poor ('artists' and other people with status are exceptions). Social pressures to be with a more physically attractive in modern days is higher than ever. Even if he is attractive, chances are, the man she's with is at least relatively successful. (Note plenty of women can be attractive and low quality)

People who are denying that looks matter are delusional. Of course exceptions exist. If you are Voltaire (which apparently many men on these boards are) then you can talk away your face. Congratulations you have reached the pinnacle of game and are probably swimming in vagina nightly. Personal appearance (genetics/lifting/self care), style, game, wealth, social circle familiarity and other aspects ALL factor into the equation.

Just having a simple contact at a house party "Oh you also know so and so, COOL!" can get you laid a lot. If you're good looking and well spoken too, it's almost a guaranteed lay. If you are highly deficient in one area, you will need another to compensate. But if you are VASTLY deficient in one, you will be penalized heavily as opposed to being moderately deficient. For instance, most guys I know with "natural" game aren't the ugliest guys in the world, but they are at least average or slightly under average looking. Some men I know look like models but they cannot seem to talk to women to save their lives so they end up getting laid a lot less than the guys mentioned before.

The most successful overall guys tend to be relatively good looking and able to talk to women.

Maximizing your ability to look good is almost ALWAYS a good idea. If you are able to be in close proximity with a woman (social circle) you can definitely circumvent this looks issue a lot more but it still applies. Maybe living in Southern California is skewing my judgement lately. This is my overall experience from being at the top of a social circle chain in my fraternity, complete cold approach at night/day in multiple environments, online dating with OkC/Tinder, having long term relationships and being slightly above average looking. As for other places, I can't really comment.

Post: #37

People are beating the horse to death, resurrecting it, beating it, burying it, digging it back up and beating it again. Jesus christ. Necromancy was outlawed by the church for a reason.

I'm not going to bother linking, but we have players on this forum who are deaf, have goldenhar's, cerebral palsy and a few other ailments they probably make the game WAY harder than it is for your average ugly person. The point I'm making is that these guys are making it work, so you don't have an excuse.

These hidden game denier threads are wearing thin.

Post: #38

(05-10-2015 10:36 PM)fiasco360 Wrote:  Sorry if this post is a bit unstructured, I've been studying too long.

Even if a woman is being approached in the street in the day time (by a guy with game), she will factor into her thinking multiple things; this includes "Oh I got a few dates lined up already this week from Tinder/OkC." It's not like online stimulus is completely separate. Yes he may be able to give her some tingles and stronger emotions, but the question is if it will win out on an already sure thing that is closer to their comfort zone.

I rarely will disagree head on with another member, but you're completely wrong here. For a woman, tingles and emotions ARE everything when it comes to men.

Unless she's actively husband shopping, at which point logic will start to play a role, all she will care about is tingles.

Are you wondering why the bitch on Tinder flaked on you? Someone else gave her more tingles.

If a bitch is hitting up Tinder, it's because she hasn't been given and 'gina tingles recently and is playing the numbers game, hoping that at least one of these dates pushing the right buttons. At worst she'll get a free meal out of it (TEAM NO APPETIZERS).

But if she was already approached on the street earlier in the day by a guy who absolutely DID give her tingles, she'll chose meeting him over a guy on Tinder who MIGHT give her tingles.

Of course, if there's a totally hottie on Tinder whose pictures really do it for her, she'll opt to see him, but she'd be damned if she didn't have two free nights this week to see both of them.

Basically, if you have strong enough game to elicit tingles and you approach, you'll hit that sweet spot often enough where you are the best thing she has on deck.

Sure, it'll be a numbers game to some degree, but everything in life is. You apply for a number of jobs, no matter how qualified you are, because that's just how the world works.

The thirst is real and any marginally attractive girl is going to have a line up at her door, but true alpha dick is a rare enough resource that a girl will feel lucky to experience it, even if her ego won't allow her to admit it.

If its simply a war of the worlds on tinder, yes, the guys who can demonstrate the most value with photographs are going to win out most of the time, but with the option to approach, this all changes.

Post: #39

(05-11-2015 01:58 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(05-10-2015 10:36 PM)fiasco360 Wrote:  Sorry if this post is a bit unstructured, I've been studying too long.

Even if a woman is being approached in the street in the day time (by a guy with game), she will factor into her thinking multiple things; this includes "Oh I got a few dates lined up already this week from Tinder/OkC." It's not like online stimulus is completely separate. Yes he may be able to give her some tingles and stronger emotions, but the question is if it will win out on an already sure thing that is closer to their comfort zone.

I rarely will disagree head on with another member, but you're completely wrong here. For a woman, tingles and emotions ARE everything when it comes to men.

...

If its simply a war of the worlds on tinder, yes, the guys who can demonstrate the most value with photographs are going to win out most of the time, but with the option to approach, this all changes.

You completely focused on one part of my post. I used the word "tingles" since it's pretty well used around here, personally I've never used the word before. If nothing but tingles factored into decisions, then there would be 0 monogamy. Despite you being the super alpha, women that you date will in fact get tingles from some other guy on occasion if she leaves the house - and if she's a good woman she will reject him.

"...but the question is if it will win out on an already sure thing that is closer to their comfort zone." You basically agreed with me midway through your post. It's a sliding scale.

If you're smooth enough (which it seems like everyone on this forum is), then by all means I'm sure you can do it. I just rarely see it hence why I made the Voltaire reference. The whole long term partner shopping is probably a bias on my end as I am in my later 20s. Most of the women I've dated my age are shopping for long term boyfriends.

Main point is that online isn't a completely separate entity. All aspects of your body/personalty matter in online and approaching.

Only reason I'm beating this dead horse is because I'm tired of studying for 8 hours straight and the adderall is wearing off.

Post: #40

"Game denialism" gets thrown around too much. It's forgotten that "looks denialism" has always been at the forefront of PUA in general.

The current consensus seems to be that looks do in fact matter, but only a negligible amount.

You'll see guys get banned just for bringing looks up, it still can't even be rationally discussed for the most part.

Post: #41

*Sigh*

Ok, so lets say that looks are the only thing that matter and that game is pointless. What can you do about it? Outside of super painful and expensive surgery there is nothing you can do about your height, race, or facial aesthetics. Get over it. I don't see why we need to open up a new thread like this every few months.

Focus on the things you can actually change: your logistics, your money, your body and your game; live a fucking interesting life. Instead of worrying about how your looks are cockblocking you, worry about actually living the life of a man who gets laid.

Post: #42

(05-08-2015 05:08 PM)jariel Wrote:  My city is no longer about the party.

It's about the story.

People want to be able to tell others, "I was at LIV on Sundays last night for Rick Ross's b-day party", "I went to Story last night and Tiesto was spinning", "I'm going to E11even for the NYE Party with Usher and DJ Irie", people go places now to be seen and then to be able to brag to their loser friends about it to make them jealous.

The party, the good time, doesn't have shit to do with it.

Now you go to dance clubs here and you have girls who don't dance, you have girls who will dance salsa and bachata together while turning other guys down left and right for dances, and this is a phenomenon that I have ONLY seen in the U.S., and specifically here in Miami.

I have partied in several different Latin American countries, and I have never seen two girls dancing together to Spanish music. It. looks. fucking. weird. Other guys are asking them to dance, yet they rather dance with each other. I did ask a girl once why she was dancing with her friend and she told me they wanted to dance and no guys had stepped up to ask, okay, cool, that warrants a pass, but anything else, seems retarded.

The biggest hurdle I'm noticing that we're facing isn't our looks, money, style, etc. it's the fact that when we're out trying to create relationships out of thin air, women look at us as strangers.

We're fucking strangers.

I wanted to scream at the top of my lungs when I read this.

This is the exact reason I stopped partying and clubbing with the Latinos in Houston. More specifically with Mexican Americans. It's same fucking thing over here. The girls refuse to dance with anyone not in their group or their own girlfriends. The guys bring their own pussy to the clubs, just like everyone else does as well. Mexican dudes just stand around and drink beer and fuck with each other in the clubs, hang out in shit. It was surreal. I grew up around Mexicans and a small amount of Cubans my whole life damn near.

The game was not this fucked up before. Dancing just was not a big standoffish thing. In fact, back then the girls loved it when black guys want to learn how to dance with them. It was always a great opportunity to practice and sharpen the Spanish too.

Only the Colombians down here still dance and keep it real, but by the time some Guatemalans tipped me to where to go, I was not really interested anymore.

I'm stunned by what you wrote Jariel. I cannot believe Miami has that same problem. The OP talks about 2009 and online game but let's be real alot of this shit started happening around 2004/05. It's been getting worse and worse ever since. WIA's excellent post while correct, still I cannot help but wonder when will the limit or ROI on all this effort start to truly not be worth it. I know my patience is not that good with women alot of times, but just how patient is your average dude going to be to keep on banging his head against the wall? Maybe they will find ways to get their bangs or whatever, but some guys are always going to have it harder than others because of the SMV. What is their tolerance level for the end game?

What about all this optimism we try to hammer into our general population of RVFers? We try to keep every guy positive and upbeat so that it does not fuck with their focus to go out there and get it, but let's be real for a minute. Too much negativity, regardless of your mindset, is harmful to the body, mind, and soul. At some point that 1,000th cut will do some amount of damage. Ideally, healthy environment plus a healthy mindset makes the cipher complete. Thing is, travel is the only anathema right now. I hope for the younger up and coming guys that these women lighten the fuck up. I'm seeing alot of imported women more and more these days and rappers talk about foreign women alot more in songs too. I would hope the younger un-ruined women can figure out for themselves to not be like the older cunts here. That might be too much to ask though.

Post: #43

(05-11-2015 08:56 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 05:08 PM)jariel Wrote:  My city is no longer about the party.

It's about the story.

People want to be able to tell others, "I was at LIV on Sundays last night for Rick Ross's b-day party", "I went to Story last night and Tiesto was spinning", "I'm going to E11even for the NYE Party with Usher and DJ Irie", people go places now to be seen and then to be able to brag to their loser friends about it to make them jealous.

The party, the good time, doesn't have shit to do with it.

Now you go to dance clubs here and you have girls who don't dance, you have girls who will dance salsa and bachata together while turning other guys down left and right for dances, and this is a phenomenon that I have ONLY seen in the U.S., and specifically here in Miami.

I have partied in several different Latin American countries, and I have never seen two girls dancing together to Spanish music. It. looks. fucking. weird. Other guys are asking them to dance, yet they rather dance with each other. I did ask a girl once why she was dancing with her friend and she told me they wanted to dance and no guys had stepped up to ask, okay, cool, that warrants a pass, but anything else, seems retarded.

The biggest hurdle I'm noticing that we're facing isn't our looks, money, style, etc. it's the fact that when we're out trying to create relationships out of thin air, women look at us as strangers.

We're fucking strangers.

I wanted to scream at the top of my lungs when I read this.

This is the exact reason I stopped partying and clubbing with the Latinos in Houston. More specifically with Mexican Americans. It's same fucking thing over here. The girls refuse to dance with anyone not in their group or their own girlfriends. The guys bring their own pussy to the clubs, just like everyone else does as well. Mexican dudes just stand around and drink beer and fuck with each other in the clubs, hang out in shit. It was surreal. I grew up around Mexicans and a small amount of Cubans my whole life damn near.

The game was not this fucked up before. Dancing just was not a big standoffish thing. In fact, back then the girls loved it when black guys want to learn how to dance with them. It was always a great opportunity to practice and sharpen the Spanish too.

Only the Colombians down here still dance and keep it real, but by the time some Guatemalans tipped me to where to go, I was not really interested anymore.

I'm stunned by what you wrote Jariel. I cannot believe Miami has that same problem. The OP talks about 2009 and online game but let's be real alot of this shit started happening around 2004/05. It's been getting worse and worse ever since. WIA's excellent post while correct, still I cannot help but wonder when will the limit or ROI on all this effort start to truly not be worth it. I know my patience is not that good with women alot of times, but just how patient is your average dude going to be to keep on banging his head against the wall? Maybe they will find ways to get their bangs or whatever, but some guys are always going to have it harder than others because of the SMV. What is their tolerance level for the end game?

From what I've seen, this is now the norm in many places.

Post: #44

Jaffna you see the matrix my friend

This is what I have been thinking, it's all social circle game now .

The new game is "comfort" which yes, is an important component of attraction and lessens the threshold and allows the girl to see you as more than objectifying your superficial f-value , of which you will lose every time to thousands of hotter guys.

If your not playing the comfort game, it's an efficient market and your SMV is based on your primal physical attributes, with game mattering very little

The bias in the community is we continue to ignore that most men who who get laid have no game (the majority of men on earth have no game). I know of guys who can't get laid who have better game. This dynamic is at play every day, in text game, in online game, in real life game, do an experiment and change the control subjects of the men talking to women. bodybuilding.com did a great one. It proves game has the least influence.

In my best judgement, and a theory I have had is that game has become so impacted by this efficient market that it matters only if you are in the top 3 percent of the population in game,

Your game has to be voodoo magic rock her world type stuff. Frankly it's almost impossible to attain. To use an RSD quote, you have to literally take over her recticular activation system

Post: #45

Smartphones, Social Media, and acceptance of online dating from the general public has made gaming harder than what it used to be.

It used to be easy for me back in 2007 to just go to a club. Approach multiple women, dance, and then get laid the same night. This was back when people made an effort to socialize outside of the group. Nowadays, it's all about women taking selfies and sharing on Instagram, Facebook or whatever. A lot of Women don't have the social skills nowadays to talk to "randos" or people they don't know. Especially in a city like LA where Social Status is everything.

Club game in LA is a big waste of time and wallet nowadays unless you're already seen as being "High Value" from the jump.

Post: #46

lol what's with the bitterness? Positive vibes only. You'll feel a lot better about yourself

Post: #47

(05-09-2015 06:17 AM)Jaffna Wrote:  The new point of balance might well be a bunch of 9-10 guys, each with a harem of 7-10 girls. The girls will be satisfied, because once every 1-2 weeks they get banged well and hard by an experienced guy they find hot. The guys are obviously satisfied since they get to bang a different cute girl every day of the week. Guys who are 7 or lower get nothing.

So this theory is often talked about, but I'm quite curious if it's true. I certainly don't know any of these mythical top tier guys that fuck all the girls in the city.

I believe a lot of the hotter girls also go without sex for a fairly long time. I've met more than one woman who hasn't had sex in months and we all know that getting sex for a woman is a piece of cake, regardless of who she is. A piece of the puzzle might be that a lot of these hotter girls are simply shopping for a new boyfriend for a long time and just not putting out a whole lot. A friend of mine was actively dating lately and she's frumpy. She goes on dates with a lot of guys, a lot of them good looking etc. She's simply picky. Understandably so - she can dates lined up easily. Why not wait for the best guy? She now found a very decent looking dude, but she's asking me if she should keep him around because he's a bit chubby (to her). And this 32 years old chick is untouchable for me.

Whatever's going on, it's unquestionable that online dating is the channel that allows top guys to occupy the time of most women. Whether they're banging them or not.

People on this forum have the advantage of game though. For a lot of men, concepts like going for a first date bang are absolutely foreign. The attention span is minimal these days, but some guys are unaware. So, game concepts are still a major major advantage.

Post: #48

To the game denialists can you explain this for me; why can I go out one night and have a terrible off night where everything I try and do turns to shit, but then the next night go out wearing exactly the same clothes, with exactly the same face and body, and be on amazing form where girls are practically crawling out the woodwork to try and be with me? The only thing that changes is my vibe, confidence, and thought patterns. I don't believe that anybody that actually goes out hasn't experienced this.

I agree, online dating does have a negative effect on the market, but that's more about flaking for day twos because they've got more options and they've started to forget the tingles you gave them. When you're in the bar or club and your game is on, she is 100% in the moment, and not giving a second thought to some other guy sitting behind his computer screen / phone or whatever.

It's a given that we should all be working on our fashion, grooming, and bodies to best attract the type of girls we want, but charisma doesn't come from these things. It would be a lot simpler if it did, but it's more about taking action, and building confidence through experience.

Post: #49

(05-12-2015 03:37 AM)Kieran Wrote:  To the game denialists can you explain this for me; why can I go out one night and have a terrible off night where everything I try and do turns to shit, but then the next night go out wearing exactly the same clothes, with exactly the same face and body, and be on amazing form where girls are practically crawling out the woodwork to try and be with me? The only thing that changes is my vibe, confidence, and thought patterns. I don't believe that anybody that actually goes out hasn't experienced this.

I agree, online dating does have a negative effect on the market, but that's more about flaking for day twos because they've got more options and they've started to forget the tingles you gave them. When you're in the bar or club and your game is on, she is 100% in the moment, and not giving a second thought to some other guy sitting behind his computer screen / phone or whatever.

It's a given that we should all be working on our fashion, grooming, and bodies to best attract the type of girls we want, but charisma doesn't come from these things. It would be a lot simpler if it did, but it's more about taking action, and building confidence through experience.

One of the reasons for the success of RSD was based on the fact that Owen Cook was not a tall, good-looking man. Despite what some may think about him or his program, he has proven again and again - sometimes within the same infield video how female reaction changes if he approaches her with the right vibe, language, posture. He is still the short, balding, ginger guy, but suddenly he manages to pull pretty girls in their prime.

Looks will always matter and most men now don't deny that, but Game and subsequent charisma matters more. The problem is that with the current available problems it takes more work for tha average man to reach that level. There are of course within the tougher dating countries easier places and much more difficult ones. If you are learning Game in Toronto or some areas in Australia, then you are going to hit many bumps before breaking through "threshold" barriers. For some men dependent on their face, height or race - it will take more work to reach pussy nirvana. For extremely ugly, short men or guys with other mental issues - it may only be attainable to get an attractive non-fat girlfriend. But seen from their viewpoint that is a huge success. Game still helped that guy tremendously as he is not an incel anymore and did not have to settle for a land-whale.

Also you can stop mentally masturbating about the virtual scenarios of what would happen if all men knew Game. This won't happen and drastic changes would come with that as well if all men would really become Red Pill.

Post: #50

(05-11-2015 11:01 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(05-11-2015 08:56 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 05:08 PM)jariel Wrote:  My city is no longer about the party.

It's about the story.

People want to be able to tell others, "I was at LIV on Sundays last night for Rick Ross's b-day party", "I went to Story last night and Tiesto was spinning", "I'm going to E11even for the NYE Party with Usher and DJ Irie", people go places now to be seen and then to be able to brag to their loser friends about it to make them jealous.

The party, the good time, doesn't have shit to do with it.

Now you go to dance clubs here and you have girls who don't dance, you have girls who will dance salsa and bachata together while turning other guys down left and right for dances, and this is a phenomenon that I have ONLY seen in the U.S., and specifically here in Miami.

I have partied in several different Latin American countries, and I have never seen two girls dancing together to Spanish music. It. looks. fucking. weird. Other guys are asking them to dance, yet they rather dance with each other. I did ask a girl once why she was dancing with her friend and she told me they wanted to dance and no guys had stepped up to ask, okay, cool, that warrants a pass, but anything else, seems retarded.

The biggest hurdle I'm noticing that we're facing isn't our looks, money, style, etc. it's the fact that when we're out trying to create relationships out of thin air, women look at us as strangers.

We're fucking strangers.

I wanted to scream at the top of my lungs when I read this.

This is the exact reason I stopped partying and clubbing with the Latinos in Houston. More specifically with Mexican Americans. It's same fucking thing over here. The girls refuse to dance with anyone not in their group or their own girlfriends. The guys bring their own pussy to the clubs, just like everyone else does as well. Mexican dudes just stand around and drink beer and fuck with each other in the clubs, hang out in shit. It was surreal. I grew up around Mexicans and a small amount of Cubans my whole life damn near.

The game was not this fucked up before. Dancing just was not a big standoffish thing. In fact, back then the girls loved it when black guys want to learn how to dance with them. It was always a great opportunity to practice and sharpen the Spanish too.

Only the Colombians down here still dance and keep it real, but by the time some Guatemalans tipped me to where to go, I was not really interested anymore.

I'm stunned by what you wrote Jariel. I cannot believe Miami has that same problem. The OP talks about 2009 and online game but let's be real alot of this shit started happening around 2004/05. It's been getting worse and worse ever since. WIA's excellent post while correct, still I cannot help but wonder when will the limit or ROI on all this effort start to truly not be worth it. I know my patience is not that good with women alot of times, but just how patient is your average dude going to be to keep on banging his head against the wall? Maybe they will find ways to get their bangs or whatever, but some guys are always going to have it harder than others because of the SMV. What is their tolerance level for the end game?

From what I've seen, this is now the norm in many places.

In Australia, this is every night at the clubs, pubs and even social events, including birthday parties, charity fund raisers, social dances etc.

I went to a social event recently where the whole theme is to meet people you've never met before, and the organisers did their best to send emails prior to the night to explain the social etiquette. Yet on the night, many girls (especially the younger more attractive ones) still only dance and talk with their female friends. You can approach and talk to them, but they will excuse themselves and go right back to their friends. Even the MC, a tall good looking charismatic guy, bombed out.

I had no idea why those girls even went. Now jariel has explained it to me: they want the story, to tell their friends they went to X on Saturday night.

Every single time I manage to meet some girls while going out in the last few years, it's been a foreigner or a girl who just moved here from another city / state i.e one specifically out to meet people.

I don't think local girls seriously want to meet anyone. I have no idea about how it is online (other than: very bad) because I've never done online dating.