Post: #26

(10-03-2011 09:28 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:I've actually had girls put up their hands and step back when I approach on the dancefloor.

How do you approach them?

As per your advice in the dance game thread. Get their attention, gauge reaction, then move in. Most of them, as soon as I get their attention they back off strongly.

@DC

I've considered this, but it happens a lot, and/or I'll see the girl dancing will multiple "non threatening" guys throughout the night.

Might just be the spot, the venue I normally go to has a big reputation in the area for having really pretentious clientèle

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #27

(10-03-2011 09:41 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

(10-03-2011 09:28 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:I've actually had girls put up their hands and step back when I approach on the dancefloor.

How do you approach them?

As per your advice in the dance game thread. Get their attention, gauge reaction, then move in. Most of them, as soon as I get their attention they back off strongly.

Sounds like they aren't impressed with your dancing. What kind of music is being played? If it's Top 40 trash, your dance moves will impress no one.

Post: #28

Disadvantages:

- You can get apathetic fucking average girls because when you have looks, who needs game?
- Girls shit-test attractive guys way harder, as such your Alpha frame needs to be made of steel.
- Unattractive guy who's an asshole; 'There's something intriguing about him!', attractive guy who's an asshole; 'He's a vain, narcissistic bully! [but I'll still fuck him anyways]'
- LTR game; female feelings of inadequacy get annoying and never go away. You know how infuriating it is being with someone for a year and still having her ask why you're with her? VERY fucking infuriating...
- Female attention score +: Interactions that seem to go well seem to go nowhere...why? That girl was feeling ugly and used you to boost her ego.
- Unattractive girls play you more aggressively. Unattractive girls do not make you look better.
- You will eventually bang and then have to deal with a stalker.

Advantages:

- Looks <=> game. Every guy should learn some game, but if you look good, you don't need to use as much game (in fact, a good-looking guy who overgames looks like a dolt).
- For men, most of the advantages of good looks come outside the sexual marketplace; good looking people are paid more (url), and people tend to project positive traits on attractive people, and negative ones on fuglies.
- More indications of interest...though a lot of them are attention whores, I've long maintained that it's far better to approach a girl you catch checking you out than approach a girl cold.

I'm 6'3 and have a mix of Mediterranean and Northern European features. I would rather look like I do than be 5'5 and Asian.

Post: #29

Quote:You can get apathetic fucking average girls because when you have looks, who needs game?

Sigh, quoted for truth. An endless stream of 6.5's can keep you apathetic.

Quote:Unattractive guy who's an asshole; 'There's something intriguing about him!', attractive guy who's an asshole; 'He's a vain, narcissistic bully! [but I'll still fuck him anyways]'

Another gem. I've literally heard girls say exactly what you just stated: Arrogant ugly guys are hilariously ironic or interesting. Good looking guys who are arrogant are vain fucks.

Quote: Female attention score +: Interactions that seem to go well seem to go nowhere...why? That girl was feeling ugly and used you to boost her ego.

You are on a fucking roll. Truth.

That being said, attractive people don't need a pity party. And when's tastes in men vary far more than men's tastes in women.

Post: #30

Lots of excellent points made... especially by Scorpio and Nonpareil.
On top of them:
I find girls with self-esteem issues, usually 6-7s, problems come out even more around me.
I am very confident, but I am not cocky. Unless I am being "cocky-funny."
Girls who have to talk about them self non-stop will usually insult me or tell me that I they don't like what I have. Which is fine with me if that makes them feel better.

I have my dream job which allows/makes me travel a ton.
Approaching women is easy. Getting them to come home with me, can be difficult at times.
Many feel like a slut and think I am a player. Both of which is true.

It isn't impossible though. I find it easiest for myself to bring home wicked sluts, 6s... 5s if I so pleased.. but I turn them down nicely. (maybe I am too nice and attract to many 5s) and 8s that want a relationship.
7s avoid me. I feel they pick up that I only want to banG. Why else would I be talking to them? I can bag the occasional 9 in Europe. My job doesn't allow me to see a lot of 9s. I am in a big city right now though. So who knows.

Pros heavily outweigh the cons. Emphasis on heavily.

Post: #31

I have a straight friend who is constantly getting attraction from gay guys. He doesn't know why, but he wants to aim whatever it is at girls.

Post: #32

I'm fat and OK looking, but I constantly attract gay guys or lesbians and not always the hot looking lesbians. They find me approachable and easy to talk to. I don't want to be an asshole so I end up chatting with them all only to find out they're gay(chicks) or they thought I was(dudes and chicks). One time this hot chick chatted me up to try and get in a 3some with her and some dude she was with. As far as I know I haven't hung out in any bars where gay folks frequent but they appear to be everywhere.

Yes.. whatever it is that's attracting the homos.. I wish I could use it to get the straight chicks homing in on me like that.

Post: #33

You have to apply game differently than how it's presented for the masses. If you have looks, less is more. If you're a guy who's a 9, you're already conveying high value and superiority from your physical looks. If you choose to double up on that with cocky funny, youll come across as a raging douchebag that will turn off many prospects and make every guy hate you.

Self deprecating humor and general humility works great. Also, you need a different way of perceiving female behavior -- they'll insult you crudely to take you down a peg and feign disinterest to preserve their ego. Countless approaches will seem cold and on the verge of dying, when the girl is just intimidated by you. Gotta press on and focus on rapport building. Contrast game with a tasteful, modest intellectual tinge to your conversations works nicely, as many think hot dudes are dumb.

Post: #34

(10-04-2011 12:28 AM)Nonpareil Wrote:  - Looks <=> game. Every guy should learn some game, but if you look good, you don't need to use as much game (in fact, a good-looking guy who overgames looks like a dolt).

Is it even possible to overgame? I thought the whole point of game was understanding what it takes to get the lizard into bed or to do what one wants. So how can one overgame? Just curious...or is it about going through the entire repetoire of 'game' without noticing which triggers she is responding to?

Post: #35

...

Post: #36

solution:

be like vinny chase (assuming you are an 8.5-10)

he doesn't act like an asshole or try cf on the chicks.i know its only a show but still,his manner is easy going and friendly which along with his very good looks gets him places.

Post: #37

(10-04-2011 05:44 AM)silent_scope Wrote:  I'm fat and OK looking, but I constantly attract gay guys or lesbians and not always the hot looking lesbians. They find me approachable and easy to talk to. I don't want to be an asshole so I end up chatting with them all only to find out they're gay(chicks) or they thought I was(dudes and chicks). One time this hot chick chatted me up to try and get in a 3some with her and some dude she was with. As far as I know I haven't hung out in any bars where gay folks frequent but they appear to be everywhere.

Yes.. whatever it is that's attracting the homos.. I wish I could use it to get the straight chicks homing in on me like that.

Lesbians have fads of types that they attracted too. Too of which are Bazoooka-Joe/tough skateboard boy, and the fat boy with glasses (think Pat from SNL), both of which look like adolescents. So, maybe you fit into one of those.

Post: #38

(10-04-2011 09:55 AM)Moma Wrote:  

(10-04-2011 12:28 AM)Nonpareil Wrote:  - Looks <=> game. Every guy should learn some game, but if you look good, you don't need to use as much game (in fact, a good-looking guy who overgames looks like a dolt).

Is it even possible to overgame? I thought the whole point of game was understanding what it takes to get the lizard into bed or to do what one wants. So how can one overgame? Just curious...or is it about going through the entire repetoire of 'game' without noticing which triggers she is responding to?

Absolutely...though 'Overgaming' is a bit of a clumsy term for what it basically means; trying too hard.

(10-04-2011 10:19 AM)alecks Wrote:  solution:

be like vinny chase (assuming you are an 8.5-10)

he doesn't act like an asshole or try cf on the chicks.i know its only a show but still,his manner is easy going and friendly which along with his very good looks gets him places.

98% of Vincent Chase's pussy comes from the fact that he's an above-average looking dude who is very famous, not him being a chill, friendly guy.

Post: #39

I'm about a 7.5 and naturally laid back and very sarcastic (I've been called an asshole plenty). Maybe I should try the "nice guy game" and get rid of my asshole part.

Post: #40

(10-04-2011 10:41 AM)houston Wrote:  I'm about a 7.5 and naturally laid back and very sarcastic (I've been called an asshole plenty). Maybe I should try the "nice guy game" and get rid of my asshole part.

Try it as an experiment and let us know how it goes.

The most important thing in this equation is knowing how to calibrate for different girls. You'll want a different approach for different girls.

Post: #41

(10-04-2011 10:14 AM)Gmac Wrote:  Is it even possible to overgame? I thought the whole point of game was understanding what it takes to get the lizard into bed or to do what one wants. So how can one overgame?

I'm guessing rather than overgame the meaning might be differently calibrated game.

I've had a woman ( a 7-8, clearly LTR oriented) tell me they think if a guy is gorgeous they consider him less suitable for a relationship.
I confronted them, told them BS etc, but she held her ground convincingly.

I mean, of course he's an extreme case ( Villa in Italian Lakes etc) but anyone who ever reads a gossip column sees George Clooney
trades in chicks every couple years and openly says he's never getting married again.

If a guy LOOKS like that and isn't a total Beta, even the most robust rationalization hamster will have trouble thinking she'll keep him on track.
But getting CHILD SUPPORT and GOOD LOOKING KIDS out of him-- now THAT'S a possibility if she's ruthless-- for a little "accident".

However, how a gorgeous guy has to calibrate is something I don't really need to know haha!

If he's trying to convince LTR girls he's not a player and he is-- that's different than calbrated slut-game.

Post: #42

(10-04-2011 10:35 AM)Nonpareil Wrote:  98% of Vincent Chase's pussy comes from the fact that he's an above-average looking dude who is very famous, not him being a chill, friendly guy.

Lol, Vincent Chase is not above average. He is extremely handsome. That's why he plays the character he does - it wouldn't make sense if he were merely above average. You could have zero fame and have half the chicks on OKCupid beating down your door for a piece of you, if you looked like that.

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging when another man is handsome.

Quote:I've had a woman ( a 7-8, clearly LTR oriented) tell me they think if a guy is gorgeous they consider him less suitable for a relationship.
I confronted them, told them BS etc, but she held her ground convincingly.

Chicks like to think they're not totally in thrall to their vag. This might have been true when they wouldn't bang until marriage, but now it's an utter falsehood.

Chicks do like to practice pre-rejection - they write you off because they strongly sense you will reject them anyway. Like fat chicks calling guys with six packs 'superficial' and 'insecure.' Of course, if you show any interest in these chicks, their resentment will quickly disappear.

Post: #43

(10-04-2011 12:01 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Sounds like they aren't impressed with your dancing. What kind of music is being played? If it's Top 40 trash, your dance moves will impress no one.

I live near DC, of course its top 40 trash

It really is though. Maybe I was right before, its the venue, not necessarily me or them that has an issue.

If I go there again this weekend I'll stay off the dance floor and see if the reception is better.



This thread is interesting, because it does seem to hint at a problem I've been having where girls seem to go from interested to not, even though I feel like I hit the nail on the head, game-wise, but that usually means being more cocky and teasing

I've been quelling my natural dorky nature a lot in the last few months, but I've also lost a good amount of weight and bulked up a lot in those few months as well (both of those facts I know for sure have made my cockiness go UP) Might try toning it down and see if that changes things.

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #44

(10-03-2011 01:10 AM)Vicious Wrote:  Something that took me years to get was the fact that good looks works against you if you're being a jerk/assertive.

I can't emphasize this enough. I cringe to think of all the sunken prospects I lost in my teens for failure to recognize this simple truth.

(10-04-2011 09:55 AM)Moma Wrote:  Is it even possible to overgame? I thought the whole point of game was understanding what it takes to get the lizard into bed or to do what one wants. So how can one overgame? Just curious...or is it about going through the entire repetoire of 'game' without noticing which triggers she is responding to?

Game is a broad term that can actually mean a lot of things. The theoretical/academic perspectives that Tom Leykis outlines in his shows, for example, can all be considered game. Likewise, game can also be defined in practical terms(negging, push-pull, building rapport, etc).

When we talk about overgaming, we're usually referring to an overuse of the more practical aspects of game.

These aspects are designed specifically to build attraction (and, later, to get her to be more intimate with you). The assumption is that you're dealing with a female who is lukewarm to you at best and downright dismissive of you at worst. You use negs, rapport building, routines, cold approaches and a whole host of other practical things to try and build attraction for you.

The thing with the good-looking guy is that he needs to do about half of the work. Many of these practical phases of game(cocky-funny, neg, etc) are redundant for him. These are designed to build attraction, and the good looking guy has usually already attracted the girl.

Overgaming can occur when a good-looking guy fails to realize this, and begins to rely on the more practical aspects of attraction-building game as though he needed them as much as any other dude.

As basil and others in this thread have already pointed out, women are more insecure than a lot of guys think. They are people, just like you.
This means that they can be intimidated or carry low self esteem, just like any male/AFC we know, if they come across a high value partner.

Even a hot girl can be a little intimidated around a good looking guy she is attracted to, as many an HB10 carries insecurities about her looks/social status (again, just like many dudes). You can imagine how 5s, 6s and 7s feel. If you've got enough going for you, you can scare the shit out of them even if you force some tingles. They're a lot more fragile than the average guy understands.

When that same good looking guy starts negging her and/or running cocky-funny game, it can push her insecurity over the edge. She is already a little wary of her status relative to yours-if you start trying to take her down a notch, she'll just feel lousy and she will no longer wish to be around you, even if she is attracted. You'll have damaged her ego far too much.

That is overgaming. You can also call this "trying too hard". That attractive guy is simply working too hard to build something(attraction) that is already there. He doesn't need to neg her and tear her down-she is already looking up to him.

A more laid-back style of game would work out better for the good-looking guy. His goal is not to build attraction, but rather not to mess up what he inherently has (while still creating a little sexual tension via kino and telling a joke or two to build some rapport). If he makes use of most standard PUA tactics (neg, cocky-funny, etc), he'll end up overgaming. She will assume that he is either a condescending douche/jerk or a guy with zero self-esteem(acting like less than he is). If she can't reconcile these, then she'll just conclude that he is weird.

His chances of improving the notch count would probably go up if he did less.

The bottomline: For some guys, less is more.

More on this topic here.

Also check out Real Made Men.

Post: #45

Im 6'3, 230. Won best dressed in high school and have always generally been considered a cool, good looking guy.

Disadvantages:
1. Like many have already said, sometimes girls try to play harder to get with good looking guys since they figure your probably fucking a lot of girls anyway and they dont want to just be added to the list.
2. Some girls will figure you are more than likely a player and wont give you any play at all.
3. Being an asshole to a girl will totally kill her self esteem and make her look at you as almost being evil. Ive been told that i "think Im all that" and that Im "stuck up" in some way or another almost all my life.

Advantages:
1. Its relatively easier to get numbers and make something happen because of that.
2. Girls will eye fuck the hell out of you often when you go out, making it easier to talk to them.
3. Usually when your out with a group of friends and you meet a group of girls, most of the time at least one of them will like u.
4. All of these advantages make it easier to fuck, at the end of the day.

Post: #46

(10-04-2011 03:15 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

(10-04-2011 12:01 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Sounds like they aren't impressed with your dancing. What kind of music is being played? If it's Top 40 trash, your dance moves will impress no one.

I live near DC, of course its top 40 trash

It really is though. Maybe I was right before, its the venue, not necessarily me or them that has an issue.

If I go there again this weekend I'll stay off the dance floor and see if the reception is better.



This thread is interesting, because it does seem to hint at a problem I've been having where girls seem to go from interested to not, even though I feel like I hit the nail on the head, game-wise, but that usually means being more cocky and teasing

I've been quelling my natural dorky nature a lot in the last few months, but I've also lost a good amount of weight and bulked up a lot in those few months as well (both of those facts I know for sure have made my cockiness go UP) Might try toning it down and see if that changes things.

There are plenty of venus in DC that play other stuff (i.e. Reggae). Chicks love to discover new scenes (aka SWPL), and if you're the one to show her that world, your chances of fucking her just went up.

Post: #47

okay fair enough vinny chase is well above average and is famous in the series and gets pussy because of that...but in real life for me i consider myself an 8 (and i have been told) and im NOT famous.

but whats happening to me that when i had no game i started getting a little bit of pussy,then when i started upping my game i started getting a little bit more,but then i was like wtf huge dry spell..then i realised that any 7.5 - 8 women where playing hard to get on such a high scale (looks + game) that i was getting nowhere (assuming i was banging other women) as they say....one of those good problems.

Post: #48

For good looking guys it's all about FAG game - Fuck-Up Avoidance Game. Don't say anything stupid.

Here's a solid example.





She was already into him, it was up to him not to fuck it up by saying something stupid. Solid FAG game in play.

Post: #49

In the spirit of this thread I have shaved my beard, for the first time in 5 years. I wore a full beard all the time, I'm now completely clean shaven.

My beard makes me more attractive (I think) but it also makes my look much more intense. I have a baby face, the beard hides that, I figure if intimidation/locking up is the problem, then this just might be a solution. It tones down my looks, gives me a much more "boy next door" look. I was planning on shaving for halloween anyways then participating in NoShavember, so this is a good time to test this out

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #50

Fuck up Avoidance Game?

The dude was running some seriously tight game the entire date. He didn't just use FAG, he was actively pulling moves on her left and right. That video shows how a good date is run. That man has fucked hundreds of women.


I doubt he stayed with her, given that he's 25 and she was 31. He probably had some fun with her and then went to the next girl.